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Old 02-06-2010, 10:53 AM   #286
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I can tell you right now if I were to run stock I would own one of each. And if not? I would own 5-6 Novaks and swap rotors and cans till I found the miracle one in my stock. I would own a resistance meter and a rotor strength tester.
No one would be able to catch me. I would drive like a mod racer on steroids and with enough money to buy the win. You would swear I was cheating. Factory drivers would dream of the speed I could buy.
I think you're being overly dramatic. It's racing. If you (not you personally, I mean people in general) want to play with the bashers and novices, then get a Slash, and go out and have some fun. Or, if my (and others) suggestion came to pass, there would be a pure spec class, and if enough vets wanted to race it you could race that.

Apart from that, it's racing. If you want to win, you have to be willing to take it at least as seriously as the guy you want to beat. That's life. If it costs too much to do it, go do something else, or be happy in the B main.

If people don't like it, they can race a different class...12th scale, mod, whatever.

Again, I think people are taking their eyes off the ball here. The point of stock racing was to bring in new faces. That didn't work because of what you're talking about above...and this is nothing new- been that way since the 80's. So, it is what it is. I mean, I'm with you that it's worth some effort to try to 'fix' the class, but IMO what people should be focusing on is how to get new asses in the seats, as it were. Nothing you're gonna do to the stock class will do that.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #287
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Our on road club is down to five solid racers. They all race stock. Not sure if it was stock that ran every one out but when you add in all the flipping restrictions.? It became a not so user friendly class that results in a lot of study black magic and just over all anguish to compete.
Now if a stock motor is faster than the track will go as in top speed then its a fair race. Unless the motor is capable of over driving the track its not a fair race. If the motor is slower than the track will go then its a race of how can I get the most out of what I have. Next thing you know the very guys you think you are helping are leaving. They get chased away because they are just having to put to much into it to get the most out of it.

Here's the glitch in stock racing. You master the track then the car. Now to get the motor to over drive it you will buy 5 or 6 17.5's 4 or 5 different lipos and sub-c's tire warmers set up stations the works. Now where does the new guy go? Now this is in an entry level class unless the chance you can support A BEGINNER class with 3 or more and I think we all know how everyone gets lined up these days. Now the fast guy is irritated with the slow guy with mumbles in the pit and so on.

I will say this to all you gentleman. If your track does not support a mod class then what is the goal to racing?

What is the inspiration for the new racer and the goal they are to try to achieve.

If your a blazing fast stock racer you may be a sand bagger.? Step it up to Mod. The money you will save on motors and batteries will cover a lot of parts and diffs. You will suprise your self just how easier Mod racing truly is vs. stock.

Fact is the healthy racing classes are all backed with a mod class. Our on road track went from about 60 to 90 entries on a Sunday to now days 5 to 8.
I should have fought harder to run a mod class back then but hind site is 20/20.

I know how it is and I think every one should run the class they feel they get the most self gratification from. This class is called SEDAN class racing not stock class in reference. Sure hope you guys all get it figured out before it cost sedan racing its life. The class has dwindled so much that the cost of a kit is almost double these days.

All I can say is remember Mr. Blacks signature?
Its my promise to RC Racing......


"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

If stock racing is the destination? I guess we have arrived huh?

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."

To me stock racing is chasing the win.
Mod racing is chasing the race. Free your racing spirit and race Mod. It will give birth to more Racers.


Respectfully.
nice thoughts.

i'm racing once a month now, don't see myself as a "must buy everything" guy, i have 1 13,5 motor and intend to use it until it stops working.

im not always the fastest, and big meetings with big power give me no reason to race. I would instantly be out of my depth, financially and as a racer.

not every track has a problem with "stock" i knows of one guy using a 17.5 and still being very competitive.

on a small track, mod isnt workable and we all are on the same kind of speed.

if you work at things as a club, you'll get the end result....
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:15 PM   #288
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:04 PM   #289
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Again, I think people are taking their eyes off the ball here. The point of stock racing was to bring in new faces. That didn't work because of what you're talking about above...and this is nothing new- been that way since the 80's. So, it is what it is. I mean, I'm with you that it's worth some effort to try to 'fix' the class, but IMO what people should be focusing on is how to get new asses in the seats, as it were. Nothing you're gonna do to the stock class will do that.
Problem is that people don't see stock as a beginner class any more. Not at all.

Want to see what it takes to get new (and younger) faces into RC? Have a look at offroad. I can go to a dirt race and see more kids race in one day than I see all season in onroad.

Without going into details about what I think that's where I think people should look to start. Looking at what's working instead of what's broken might be a better place to start.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:09 PM   #290
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Without going into details about what I think that's where I think people should look to start. Looking at what's working instead of what's broken might be a better place to start.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:10 PM   #291
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people nowdays at my location. they took stock racing as competition rc. hence things changed towards commercialization. the lhs always push new product months after months. there are ppl changing motor & esc in short time. hence the joy of rc is neglected.

they hardly wanna share tips with beginners. this to keep the knowledge to themselve to win races.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:41 PM   #292
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There seems to be two different ideas of what stock class is among racers...

1. A slower class intended for less skilled drivers to start in before they advance to faster classes.

2. A motor specific (spec) class to bring highly competitive racers closer together speed wise for closer high performance racing.

Typically, beginners would start out in a novice or sportsman class. So I would say that stock class is #2 and not for beginners.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:21 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by RCHR View Post
There seems to be two different ideas of what stock class is among racers...

1. A slower class intended for less skilled drivers to start in before they advance to faster classes.

2. A motor specific (spec) class to bring highly competitive racers closer together speed wise for closer high performance racing.

Typically, beginners would start out in a novice or sportsman class. So I would say that stock class is #2 and not for beginners.
Stock is an intermediate calls IMHO, motors and equipment should be timing locked, just like the brushed days and left for the intermediates and the youngins. This way little johny can afford to run with the big boys but not have to worry about the gadget and budget boys.

All others should be in mod, if your tracks is too small then limit the mod motor, our club has just introduced a gentlemanís mod class, limited to an 8.5 turn motor, this is to keep costs down and the racing better.
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:06 AM   #294
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Problem is that people don't see stock as a beginner class any more. Not at all.

Want to see what it takes to get new (and younger) faces into RC? Have a look at offroad. I can go to a dirt race and see more kids race in one day than I see all season in onroad.

Without going into details about what I think that's where I think people should look to start. Looking at what's working instead of what's broken might be a better place to start.
I agree with you 150%. Except, I'd reword. It's not that people don't see stock as a beginner class that's the problem, it's that they _do_ see it as a beginner class, and it simply isn't one. This is why I've been talking up a spec class to serve that purpose.
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:07 AM   #295
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2. A motor specific (spec) class to bring highly competitive racers closer together speed wise for closer high performance racing.

Typically, beginners would start out in a novice or sportsman class. So I would say that stock class is #2 and not for beginners.


This.
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:48 AM   #296
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This.
That is just the point, unless you want to open your wallet every few months the speed is not so similar.
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Old 02-07-2010, 02:34 AM   #297
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no one at my local club is spending mega bucks every month to remain competitve. we still even have s400's being raced and there is no esc/motor of the week/month and no one that i know at the club of has any hidden secrets.

as a result, everyone who is consistant with their laptimes has an equal shot at winning the A, sometimes even someone with a 27t motor, as we let them in with 13.5.....

if you want cheap,competitve racing, the m03 and m05's are where it's at imho...
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:33 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by dietDrThunder View Post
I think you're being overly dramatic. It's racing. If you (not you personally, I mean people in general) want to play with the bashers and novices, then get a Slash, and go out and have some fun. Or, if my (and others) suggestion came to pass, there would be a pure spec class, and if enough vets wanted to race it you could race that.

Apart from that, it's racing. If you want to win, you have to be willing to take it at least as seriously as the guy you want to beat. That's life. If it costs too much to do it, go do something else, or be happy in the B main.

If people don't like it, they can race a different class...12th scale, mod, whatever.

Again, I think people are taking their eyes off the ball here. The point of stock racing was to bring in new faces. That didn't work because of what you're talking about above...and this is nothing new- been that way since the 80's. So, it is what it is. I mean, I'm with you that it's worth some effort to try to 'fix' the class, but IMO what people should be focusing on is how to get new asses in the seats, as it were. Nothing you're gonna do to the stock class will do that.
Dramatic might be a good term for it but none the least I would do just what I posted I would and we all know many who do and would.
Personally I agree 100%. Your thoughts there very good. You have to be as serious as the guy in the lead if you want to catch them. And I don't know anyone who shows up just to turn laps and then pay to race.
There could be a combo of reasons there are low turn outs in some area's? Maybe there's a dirt track near by? It could be a good turn out if there wasn't?
Like I said earlier. Run what you enjoy. Stock racing is a from of racing that can be shared by the fast and slow. Maybe that's what sedan racing is and has evolved to. Who's to say if its right or wrong. Hell for all we know its not an entry level style of racing for bringing in racers. Maybe its the class some end up in after they have cut there teeth dirt racing. Maybe its the F1 of RC? Just maybe dirt racing is the entry level.?

Maybe there is nothing to fix? But stock racing is more than just racing.
At our track just the mere mention of mod racing makes them cringe and get all bent out of shape and our track is huge. Lucky for us speed demons there is a dirt track right next door where we can get our speed fix. But that carpet straight sure is long. Grrr!

I have mentioned running mod sedan to few guys at the dirt track this summer. And no one is interested. Maybe its not stock but rather the interest is not there?

One thing I do know is that the cost to buy a kit is really high. I want to run an Xray. But at 500.00 I think Nitro 1/8th is more of an attention getter. And more likely to keep me on the hook. I can buy a nitro motor and a kit for that. Kinda makes ya think we have our thoughts all wrong on which is an entry class huh?
At any rate good luck gents. Our local track is in the same bind. And Ya know I just don't know if its any thing we as racers can do? It just could be that sedan racing is a preference that only seasoned racers can grasp.

I do know that if the manufacturers where to make it cheaper to get in to kit wise then it would have to gain some popularity and may help get some momentum going.

Then its up to the racers. The cost gets them in the door. And our attitude keeps then Racing.

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Old 02-07-2010, 10:14 AM   #299
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Stock is an intermediate calls IMHO, motors and equipment should be timing locked, just like the brushed days and left for the intermediates and the youngins. This way little johny can afford to run with the big boys but not have to worry about the gadget and budget boys.

All others should be in mod, if your tracks is too small then limit the mod motor, our club has just introduced a gentlemanís mod class, limited to an 8.5 turn motor, this is to keep costs down and the racing better.
That's awesome!

What alot of people don't realize is mod is what ever motor. It's not just a 4.5, run a 8.5, 6.5 no one cares and they all will be just as competitive. Especially on a smaller track, 10.5 or such would be fine. Guys from 13.5 can move into mod. And 17.5 guys can move into 13 and have a fighting chance at winning. And the slower 17.5 guys can move to the top.

13.5 right now is pretty close to mod times on a smaller carpet track. Not sure on a big asphalt track but if the lap times are they same why wouldn't you want to run mod? Running with the fast guys is the best way to learn IMO. If your killing everyone in one class I don't understand the fun in that. Why not step up a class and keep challenging your self?
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:43 AM   #300
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That's awesome!

What alot of people don't realize is mod is what ever motor. It's not just a 4.5, run a 8.5, 6.5 no one cares and they all will be just as competitive. Especially on a smaller track, 10.5 or such would be fine. Guys from 13.5 can move into mod. And 17.5 guys can move into 13 and have a fighting chance at winning. And the slower 17.5 guys can move to the top.

13.5 right now is pretty close to mod times on a smaller carpet track. Not sure on a big asphalt track but if the lap times are they same why wouldn't you want to run mod? Running with the fast guys is the best way to learn IMO. If your killing everyone in one class I don't understand the fun in that. Why not step up a class and keep challenging your self?
Even at the last ETS race (which ran a HUGE track) the 13.5 cars were running close to the same lap times as the Modified cars.
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