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Old 02-05-2010, 09:05 AM   #271
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I was getting bto the point earlier that was a bit vauge,get the if you want to call it sportsman or whatever,is by driver,not equip.Our larger races have splits,but usually at times our club races have a slow tiurnout and classes are put together.Most of the new drivers in our area do not show up regularly to race,so, do you not let them race if there is two cars?when a lot of times time frame does make it hard for the race director to get them all in.We alomg with most tracks have an [email protected] in stock when enough show up which sorts out driving skills.If your a novice,try to shadow the bettr drivers in your heat not try to run the better drivers down by driving over your head and before long you will be right with them.They Will help you if they like the sport.
The problem with that is sandbaggers. People will enter a class down from their skill level to have a better chance at winning. If enough people do that you push out the guys lower on the ladder.

I know you and Captain don't agree, but the concensus seems to be there nees to be an equipment limitation on the lower classes, beyond the motor.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:12 AM   #272
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The problem with that is sandbaggers. People will enter a class down from their skill level to have a better chance at winning. If enough people do that you push out the guys lower on the ladder.

I know you and Captain don't agree, but the concensus seems to be there nees to be an equipment limitation on the lower classes, beyond the motor.
Thank you for this post. I am glad to see I am not the only one that sees this. Sandbagging by some just for the "win" has pushed out a lot of new racers at the club and regional level. But, when you put limitations on equipment, these "sandbaggers" tend to run in the class(es) they should be running anyway, leaving only the racers that the class was truly design to attract.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:25 AM   #273
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The problem with that is sandbaggers. People will enter a class down from their skill level to have a better chance at winning. If enough people do that you push out the guys lower on the ladder.

I know you and Captain don't agree, but the concensus seems to be there nees to be an equipment limitation on the lower classes, beyond the motor.
That is where the race director / club director comes in. There is nothing wrong with a race director saying "hey.. you are getting too good, next week we would like you to run in expert".... And visa-versa... somebody who is absolutly getting STOMPED in expert, would have no issues going down into sportsman. Because I think we can ALL agree, no matter what kind of driver you are, that we all want to race against those with similar skill.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:41 AM   #274
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Call it what you want but some people don't like running mod. I personally don't like running mod on small carpet tracks. I almost always break something running mod on small tight carpet tracks. Plus cost is much higher in mod with multiple motors, higher wear/tear and more of a chance to break.

What's wrong with having sportsman, Stock and Mod?

Last edited by malkiy; 02-05-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:20 AM   #275
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...but the concensus seems to be there nees to be an equipment limitation on the lower classes, beyond the motor.

+1 Definitely


Tamiya GT2 is an almost perfect "true spec" class. Add locked down ESC's, spec tire, and expand chassis to other manufacturers (have chassis dollar limit to under $250?) and there you go...

Tamiya GT2 Rules:

The GT-2 class has received a major makeover. This class is for intermediate hobbyists and racers wanting a TRUE SPEC class using the latest Tamiya chassis, brushless motors and battery technologies. Welcome to the NEW GT-2 class!


1. TA-05 IFS, TA05 Version 2 and TB-03 IFS tub chassis cars only.
2. Tamiya Hop Ops only.
3. Spec 17.5 Brushless motors only! For the 2010 season 17.5 motor technologies will be locked down to 3 manufactures to keep things simple for racers and organizers alike.
* Novak (item 3417) Pro Brushless Motor 17.5 (Yellow Ring)
* Novak (item 3617) Ballistic Spec 17.5-yellow tab
* LRP (item 50850) X-11 17.5 Stock Spec (Orange Ring)
* LRP (item 50852) X-12 17.5 Stock spec
* Tekin (item TT2251) Redline 17.5.


4. Hard cased LIPO batteries are legal for GT-2 class racing. See general rules for legal TCS LIPO's.
5. All GT-2 cars must meet a minimum weight of 1400 Grams.
6. Any Tamiya 190 mm GT or Sports car body is permitted.
7. All car bodies must use the kit supplied ABS wing or Tamiya option wing (53470 or 53604). The option wings may only be used if the body has dimples already marked for the option wing mount
8. Tamiya 24mm tires and wheels only.
9. New for 2010: In an effort to keep GT-2 scale looking, dish wheels are banned from GT-2 class racing. Spoke type wheels must be used.
10. Any tire insert may be used.
11. Drilling extra vent holes to the wheels is illegal.
12. Changing the camber link positions on the car other than the way it was intended is not allowed.
13. GT-2 will adopt 8-minute main events
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Last edited by PitNamedGordie; 02-05-2010 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:22 PM   #276
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I am convinced that 13.5 or even 17.5 works on a small track, (ok, I know not everyone would want to race on a track 10x15m though) because there is only so much of it that you can use, the rest is down to a well set up car and consistant laps.

Gear it too much, or tweak the ESC too heavily and you just end up with a hot motor or you find the boards...

If a club has issues, they either get resolved or people walk away.

Who can hold their hand up and honestly say their club has a problem with stock? Lets put this into perspective.
Our on road club is down to five solid racers. They all race stock. Not sure if it was stock that ran every one out but when you add in all the flipping restrictions.? It became a not so user friendly class that results in a lot of study black magic and just over all anguish to compete.
Now if a stock motor is faster than the track will go as in top speed then its a fair race. Unless the motor is capable of over driving the track its not a fair race. If the motor is slower than the track will go then its a race of how can I get the most out of what I have. Next thing you know the very guys you think you are helping are leaving. They get chased away because they are just having to put to much into it to get the most out of it.

Here's the glitch in stock racing. You master the track then the car. Now to get the motor to over drive it you will buy 5 or 6 17.5's 4 or 5 different lipos and sub-c's tire warmers set up stations the works. Now where does the new guy go? Now this is in an entry level class unless the chance you can support A BEGINNER class with 3 or more and I think we all know how everyone gets lined up these days. Now the fast guy is irritated with the slow guy with mumbles in the pit and so on.

I will say this to all you gentleman. If your track does not support a mod class then what is the goal to racing?

What is the inspiration for the new racer and the goal they are to try to achieve.

If your a blazing fast stock racer you may be a sand bagger.? Step it up to Mod. The money you will save on motors and batteries will cover a lot of parts and diffs. You will suprise your self just how easier Mod racing truly is vs. stock.

Fact is the healthy racing classes are all backed with a mod class. Our on road track went from about 60 to 90 entries on a Sunday to now days 5 to 8.
I should have fought harder to run a mod class back then but hind site is 20/20.

I know how it is and I think every one should run the class they feel they get the most self gratification from. This class is called SEDAN class racing not stock class in reference. Sure hope you guys all get it figured out before it cost sedan racing its life. The class has dwindled so much that the cost of a kit is almost double these days.

All I can say is remember Mr. Blacks signature?
Its my promise to RC Racing......


"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

If stock racing is the destination? I guess we have arrived huh?

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."

To me stock racing is chasing the win.
Mod racing is chasing the race. Free your racing spirit and race Mod. It will give birth to more Racers.


Respectfully.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:23 PM   #277
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Who buys 4-5 17.5 motors and multiple batteries for stock? I think you're having flash backs of the brushed + c-cell days.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:30 PM   #278
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I don't know why I keep falli8ng into responses on this,just enjoy the hobby,most of the ones that bitch at our track usually don't give that much support.You are playing with pricey toys,for what,your entry back?practice,you will do better.If I ever respond to this type o0f thread,someone remind me how I said I wouldn't get into this bitchfest again.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:19 PM   #279
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Tamiya GT2 is an almost perfect "true spec" class. Add locked down ESC's, spec tire, and expand chassis to other manufacturers (have chassis dollar limit to under $250?) and there you go...
At first I thought “nawwww….lame” Then after thinking about it some more; that would rock! Just allow the freedom of choice in car manufactures with the fixed tech. If I was totally new to this again - I would do that and probably enjoy it. Kinda GT2 meets RCGT.

Maintaining multi-brands means competition for car $$, competition is always a good thing for consumers and creates markets for vendors.

Brand rivalry wars!!! Ford vs. Chevy, Porsche vs. Ferrari, Losi vs. AE…

(Proud Losi owner)
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:44 PM   #280
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At first I thought “nawwww….lame” Then after thinking about it some more; that would rock! Just allow the freedom of choice in car manufactures with the fixed tech. If I was totally new to this again - I would do that and probably enjoy it. Kinda GT2 meets RCGT.

Maintaining multi-brands means competition for car $$, competition is always a good thing for consumers and creates markets for vendors.

Brand rivalry wars!!! Ford vs. Chevy, Porsche vs. Ferrari, Losi vs. AE…

(Proud Losi owner)
I see a XXX-S competing well in this class.

If the prices of the kits were right you could get a car, ESC and motor for less than a top of the line TC. I'd also like to see manufactures making their RTRs geared towards this class. Through in a cheap radio and you have a REAL race car for less than $500...RTR ~ ready to race?? They could still get the basher crowd with the same kits.

I can't remember how much these were but they were on the right track. Just change a couple of things like motor wind and tires...and there you go.

http://www.losi.com/Products/Product...rodID=LOSA0287

THIS is what I think of when I hear true spec/sportsman/less expensive racing/fun/growing the hobby. Not just a locked down ESC or rules around gearing and motor type.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:02 PM   #281
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Who buys 4-5 17.5 motors and multiple batteries for stock? I think you're having flash backs of the brushed + c-cell days.
I can tell you right now if I were to run stock I would own one of each. And if not? I would own 5-6 Novaks and swap rotors and cans till I found the miracle one in my stock. I would own a resistance meter and a rotor strength tester.
No one would be able to catch me. I would drive like a mod racer on steroids and with enough money to buy the win. You would swear I was cheating. Factory drivers would dream of the speed I could buy.

In mod we race for the win. Not pay for it.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:09 PM   #282
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I don't know why I keep falli8ng into responses on this,just enjoy the hobby,most of the ones that bitch at our track usually don't give that much support.You are playing with pricey toys,for what,your entry back?practice,you will do better.If I ever respond to this type o0f thread,someone remind me how I said I wouldn't get into this bitchfest again.
Passion is why.

I agree with one thing. Enjoy it. But as for toys. I don't think so?
I'm a racer, its become part of my every day routine. I'm not playing. I am going to race you down and try to make a pass. And I am going to be as serious as a heart attack on a good day. Fun is a lap down when I hit the track. Its called RC racing where I race. Not lets play with our pricey toys.

Its a Mod thing.

Don't worry I will remind you.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:15 PM   #283
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Call it what you want but some people don't like running mod. I personally don't like running mod on small carpet tracks. I almost always break something running mod on small tight carpet tracks. Plus cost is much higher in mod with multiple motors, higher wear/tear and more of a chance to break.

What's wrong with having sportsman, Stock and Mod?
actually, some have problems with mod in a small track cuz they are over powered... always get a motor that you can handle... if its too hot for you, try a higher turn motor... driving mod does not means you need to run a 4.5T or 5.0T but sometimes a 9.5T will do...

plus with the extra power, you will learn more abt throttle discipline and driving within your limit which i find many have yet to grasp(myself inclusive)... go slower if you need to and you might just end up faster and with less heartaches... you will also realise that you will improve faster...

for me, my main aim when i am practising alone is to drive consistently at nearly race pace but i will spare some capacity as allowance for errors... this way, i am not driving at my limit and can react appropriately to avoid crashing my car... of course during race and practise battles, you will push but car preservation should constantly be at the back of your mind... this way, you will know when to chase, when to ease off and be able to not end your race/practise prematurely...

anyway, my thoughts to the general massess and not specific to anyone... just partaking in the forum discussion..
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:07 AM   #284
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The way I see it mod is the premier class of racing, women tennis players winge about prize money but can one of them beat Roger Federer, i severly doubt it. You can wine all you like about stock racing but mod is the premier class, stock is for beginners and intermediate drivers, anyone who has a national or regional stock title should move up to race mod. Why would you want to stay in a second rate class of racing, move up to mod, sorry stock racers, it is the way I see it, if you want to put your name in the books next to mine then race with a mod motor.

Racers, even on the small tracks bring back mod racing, if your track is small and the mod motor is only a 7.5 or 8.5, it is still mod racing. No problems with technology then, just bolt a bigger motor in.

If I could not beat the sandbaggers in the stock class I would just move up to mod anyway, if you are going to be beat, be beat on ability and not technology or bugdets.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:12 AM   #285
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Passion is why.

I agree with one thing. Enjoy it. But as for toys. I don't think so?
I'm a racer, its become part of my every day routine. I'm not playing. I am going to race you down and try to make a pass. And I am going to be as serious as a heart attack on a good day. Fun is a lap down when I hit the track. Its called RC racing where I race. Not lets play with our pricey toys.

Its a Mod thing.

Don't worry I will remind you.
"Racing toy cars for bowling trophies" is an attitude.

At the end of the day, your car lying in 10 thousand pieces because some nut put you in the wall, just before you commit a serious felony, you repeat that phrase to yourself. It puts things in perspective, and saves you thousands in lawyer fees.
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