R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-15-2010, 10:54 AM   #91
Tech Elite
 
Joel Lagace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,628
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badKarma View Post
HERE IS THE FIX:

Instead of VTA, run RCGT with spec ESC (no advan timing/boost) and 21.5 motor w/ fixed timing and spec wheels and tires for the NOVICE SPEC CLASS...

..
Does "joe hobby shop customer" know what VTA and RCGT is? Are there any on the shelf next to the 25 RTR cars/trucks?
__________________
"Without Rules its just Backyard Bashing!"
www.rcottawa.com
Joel Lagace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 10:58 AM   #92
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

My only problem with fixed timing is that the motors ran MUCH hotter in those days and we all had to have giant pinions which didn't fit in some cars. Would be nice if we can spec it in a way that keeps equipment failure to a minimum.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:23 AM   #93
Tech Master
 
PitNamedGordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Highwood, IL
Posts: 1,789
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to PitNamedGordie Send a message via Yahoo to PitNamedGordie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
My only problem with fixed timing is that the motors ran MUCH hotter in those days and we all had to have giant pinions which didn't fit in some cars. Would be nice if we can spec it in a way that keeps equipment failure to a minimum.
+1

I still have some 50+ tooth pinion in my box. I remember running a 3.7-3.8 fdr and trying to keep the temps down. Now I gear close to 5.0 and have a hard time hitting 160 and have more speed than I need.
__________________
☆ The Track @ Harbor Hobbies ☆ www.harbor-hobby.net ☆
PitNamedGordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:26 AM   #94
Tech Champion
 
Nova F1 Racer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Peoples Republic of Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,682
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by munrath View Post
If the intent from ROAR and other manufactures is to bring in new people then changing how a National event is run and or the rules isn't the fix. It might be a step in some direction, but it has to start at the local hobby shops and or the local tracks. This is where the new racers are showing up and getting hooked into the hobby.

To bring in new racers I offer the following:
Lower the cost of entry fee's for new racers
Lower the cost of entry fee's period
Give the racers something.. a shirt, car stand, a set of tires or something
Give the A-main guys something for making the A and give the top 5 in the B something and then the top 3 for the rest
Offer a discount for the second class... If one exists
Make it fun!!
Have raffles
Give away door prizes (usable products like bodies, tires, motors, receivers, etc..
Cater food

Take a look at what other large races are doing and learn why they are succesfull and why they attract so many racers from new to old

Have consistency in the race schedule so that racers can budget and plan for the bigger events. Example: All Carpet Nats will be held in the month of March, all Electric On-Road is going to be held in July, etc....

Bottom line: It has to start where the new racers are racing, and it's great to see that manufacturers are looking to help, and give support and guidance.

Mark
Stop bringing common sense into this thread Mark!!!!
Botton line, need to open this hobby to more people and make the hobby more than a regional type. $$$ is tight for the people and the hobby so people are trying to spend it wisely but also be competitive. Spec racing ( like the Tamiya TCS ) is one that comes to mind with their series. Got to use their products but it works....
__________________
This is DICK!!! And you're NOT!
RC Tech member #11
Aussie Rules Footy, Brisbane LIONS!!
[url]http://www.pitter-pat.com/[/url] for pet care needs in Northern Virginia
Nova F1 Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:36 AM   #95
Tech Elite
 
KHoff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,166
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

ROAR needs to take a look at what the guys running the Northeast Grand Slam Series are doing.... it works.
__________________
Awesomatix USA / Middle River Hobbies / Sweep / Psycho Cells Racing
Karl Hoffmeister
KHoff7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:36 AM   #96
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Bern, N.C.
Posts: 1,268
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

the problem seems to be simple and I see it as twofold:

1) the current crop of 17.5 cars (both sedan and 1/12th) have gotten so fast with the new speedo technology that the existing package is not very appropriate for somebody new who's trying to learn how to race. a new guy with a good 17.5 car is likely to bounce off of everything and everybody, to break a bunch of parts, and to get discouraged. Not good.

2) even for the experienced racer who does have good skills and some level of mastery, in these early stages of rapid speedo technology development, one can never seem to know lately if one's equipment is going to be made obsolete overnight by whatever is the newest development in speedos. We've seen this happen first with the SPX's, then with the Black Diamonds, and now with the Tekins.

the solution to these problems does seem simple enough........just mandate the use of a basic non-adjustable speedo with no boost and no timing adjust capabilities for the entry level classes (whatever motors are chosen for the basic classes) and disallow any speedo trickery that adds boost or timing or other electronic wizardry for those classes. In combination, mandate basic motors with no adjustable timing. Then, for the mid level and above classes (whatever motors are chosen for those too),.....anything goes so long as the motor fits within the rules. In this way each racer can choose to run in the basic classes where the speeds should be under control and the equipment will remain stable and relatively affordable.....or he can choose to jump into the deep end where it's necessary to keep up with the latest and the greatest. Unfortunatly, the situation that we have now is that any racer who doesn't want to get his butt kicked because of equipment disparities is forced to keep him self equipped with the latest speedo technology. As all have seen recently, this can get quite expensive. And for those who will now be tempted to chime in and to shout that their Tekins solve that problem because of the downloads that are continually being put out for free..........let's not forget that the Tekin crowd was among the loudest of protesters when the Black Diamond came out and there was no Tekin firmware available that would overcome the BD's advantage. The temporary solution to the superiority of the Advanced Electronics speedo was the outlandish ban on the Black Diamond. Redicuous. Updatable speedos are not the answer for containing cost unless we are going to be willing to ban anything else new if it happens to be faster than the fastest free update that's out at any given time. Obviously that's would be as rediculous as it was arbitrary last time it happened. Mandating the use of simple, basic, (and likely very affordable) non-adjustable speedos with no programming trickery for the "stock" classes would seem the only viable solution to this problem of escalating technology, speeds and costs. I offer that we should do this at least for the classes where controlling the speeds, the costs, and the access for new participants matters.

Having said all that, please know that I choose to take my black diamond equipped 1/12th scale wherever the best available competition is to be found. And on the occasions when some of the guys kick my butt, then they will have done so because they are just better at it than me. That's OK, and it gives me motivation to try and improve my own game.
vafactor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:38 AM   #97
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 3,538
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to munrath
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KHoff7 View Post
ROAR needs to take a look at what the guys running the Northeast Grand Slam Series are doing.... it works.
+100
__________________
Tekno RC (RTM) / RadioPost / Tekin / Pro-Match Racing / AKA / PT Racing Oils/Diff Lube

Races for 2015:
PNB, AMS, E-Nats Warm-up, E-Nats, LCRC North East Challenge, RAC, LCRC Halloween, Badlands, ROAR Region 2 Series, and Local Club Racing
munrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:44 AM   #98
RHH
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 90
Default Getting New Blood

The manufacturers need to advertise in the car mags like Associated did when it began their first offroad buggy years ago. Traxxis is the only one I've seen the last few years. Good slow motion shots of on-road and off-road races on late night cable would get some folks looking for local hobby shops and tracks.

Advertise the sport and folks will come.
RHH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:04 PM   #99
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by munrath View Post
If the intent from ROAR and other manufactures is to bring in new people then changing how a National event is run and or the rules isn't the fix. It might be a step in some direction, but it has to start at the local hobby shops and or the local tracks. This is where the new racers are showing up and getting hooked into the hobby.

To bring in new racers I offer the following:
Lower the cost of entry fee's for new racers
Lower the cost of entry fee's period
Give the racers something.. a shirt, car stand, a set of tires or something
Give the A-main guys something for making the A and give the top 5 in the B something and then the top 3 for the rest
Offer a discount for the second class... If one exists
Make it fun!!
Have raffles
Give away door prizes (usable products like bodies, tires, motors, receivers, etc..
Cater food

Take a look at what other large races are doing and learn why they are succesfull and why they attract so many racers from new to old

Have consistency in the race schedule so that racers can budget and plan for the bigger events. Example: All Carpet Nats will be held in the month of March, all Electric On-Road is going to be held in July, etc....

Bottom line: It has to start where the new racers are racing, and it's great to see that manufacturers are looking to help, and give support and guidance.

Mark
I've tried this in my local races yet participation is down. Our race charges $5 for the first class, $3 for the second, and $2 for the third. You can't get much less expensive then that. Problem is charging that little barely covers operating costs so giving away free stuff other than our normal awards like shirts or pizza or whatnot is not economically feasible. The reason big races can do stuff like that is because the entry fees are higher and because they get sponsorship for the races from RC companies. The problem isn't the cost to sign up for a race...it's the cost of the equipment. Which still baffles me because equipment today costs less then it did 15 years ago, yet RC was booming back then.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:14 PM   #100
Tech Elite
 
stitchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,794
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Which still baffles me because equipment today costs less then it did 15 years ago, yet RC was booming back then.
$50 = one video game, good for hours and hours of entertainment, maybe weeks or months

$50 = one set of tires and one entry fee, good for one afternoon (yes, i'm over-simplifying)

also, addiction to instant gratification wasn't back then what it is now
__________________
Speedtechhobbies.com
stitchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:36 PM   #101
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

vafactor. Nice idea but as others have said, we will all be frying motors left and right then.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:39 PM   #102
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stitchy View Post
$50 = one video game, good for hours and hours of entertainment, maybe weeks or months

$50 = one set of tires and one entry fee, good for one afternoon (yes, i'm over-simplifying)

also, addiction to instant gratification wasn't back then what it is now
That is true...how does RC compete with video games with all the equipment we have to drag out to the track when we could just sit on our bums and play Grand Tourismo on the console...

I think Stitchy is on to something here
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 01:41 PM   #103
Tech Elite
 
Joel Lagace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,628
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
That is true...how does RC compete with video games with all the equipment we have to drag out to the track when we could just sit on our bums and play Grand Tourismo on the console...

I think Stitchy is on to something here


Thats what clubs are up against. With the PS3 and xbox you just keep hitting reset.. ITs harder then ever to draw in new racers to our hobby
__________________
"Without Rules its just Backyard Bashing!"
www.rcottawa.com
Joel Lagace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 01:41 PM   #104
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,918
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

It must be a slow day.Racing is racing whether you race Slot Cars- R/C -Go karts- Motocycles- real cars.If you want to race you usually have to be a member of a National organization.The rules can and often change but you have to start somewhere.The cost of racing like anything else is going up. Trying to regulate Motor and ESC good luck.You can't stop technology.Most of you wanted it and now you got it.New guys coming to the tracks all they have to do is ask someone and they can point you in the right direction.Unfortanutely R/C takes time like anything else to learn to drive properly and many people don't have the time to stick it out.It's the same in any hobby you do.Heck I learned with a 1/12th with 2 sevros and a wiper arm. do I want to go back to that- NO Way.I saw some talk about spec chassis- done that before.You do what you can afford.
A very simple way to any class is called gearing to slow the cars down if they are to fast.As the drive gains experence he could always use the same motor with open gearing.He moves into a different class with the same equipment.If your a small group why can't you run everyone together and score them seperate?
__________________
Team Epic/Trinity -Michael Bruce Hobbies-Team CRC ,Kimbrough Products and GForce.
WGT-R, GT-12 Racing USA (21.5 ), Formula 1 and Home Track is 386 RaceWay,ROAR #7540.
BullFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 01:45 PM   #105
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,927
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

If you're frying motors, you're geared wrong. That hasn't changed since the brushed days.

Giving stuff away and lowering entry fees directly contradict each other. You can't add value with less money. Besides, the product of a race promoter is racing. If the quality of the event is high racers don't care about the rest. There's a thousand outdoor tracks with porta-potties that are a few weeks past due to prove that.

While I think there should be a privateer class, I know plenty of privateers that run right with the best sponsored guys. If this happens, I hope the sportsman drivers won't be dismayed when they don't finish too much higher than they did the year before. The hobby is expensive but the equipment to win at the highest level is available to anyone willing to spend the money and there's plenty of them out there. I think if you're sponsored you should race against the best racers and in the expert classes (whatever those are).
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

In mind and body, we're all heading towards old age. It is slower to go by bike.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:22 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net