Schumacher Corner
02-06-2006, 04:23 PM
gutes glück zu jeder beim snowbirds.
ich sehe sie in stockton!
ich sehe sie in stockton!
02-06-2006, 04:31 PM
Tech Champion
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Originally Posted by seaball
gutes glück zu jeder beim snowbirds.
ich sehe sie in stockton!
ich sehe sie in stockton!
02-06-2006, 04:35 PM
Hey guys. The following question is being asked with zero malice involved. I have a buddy who has an EC and It looks as though the topdeack has been raised, in a time when almost every company has gone to great lengths to lower CG it seems shall we say "against the grain". I have driven Shuies before so I am familiar with them and to me this looks to be the tallest I can remember (my 1st was the Axis Pro). Is there something else in the design that helps to counteract the high CG or is CG like the Colts (overy hyped)?
I was also surprised to see it come with a spool as the average club racer seems to struggle with them.
I look forward to seeing them on the track.
I was also surprised to see it come with a spool as the average club racer seems to struggle with them.
I look forward to seeing them on the track.
02-06-2006, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by seaball
gutes glück zu jeder beim snowbirds.
ich sehe sie in stockton!
ich sehe sie in stockton!
02-06-2006, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by STLNLST
cornerspeed- Just bring some Jaco's doublepink rears and Oranger double pink fronts and you will be fine. DON'T BRING THE WRAPS the bite isn't high enough for a club race for them to be a factor. Start out with Mo's set up and go from there. His has a bit more steering than mine. It all depends on your driving style.
I was hoping one of you guys up there will get a couple sets for me and true them so I will be set to go right away. Need all the practice I can get. My truer sucks and its hard to find foams around here ya know. I will pay for them and the labor.
02-06-2006, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jon Kerr
It's been 10 years since high school German class. I understood it, but no way could I write a reply.
Du bist eine kliene, schiese, shvien hund
02-06-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ill Factor
Hey guys. The following question is being asked with zero malice involved. I have a buddy who has an EC and It looks as though the topdeack has been raised, in a time when almost every company has gone to great lengths to lower CG it seems shall we say "against the grain". I have driven Shuies before so I am familiar with them and to me this looks to be the tallest I can remember (my 1st was the Axis Pro). Is there something else in the design that helps to counteract the high CG or is CG like the Colts (overy hyped)?
I was also surprised to see it come with a spool as the average club racer seems to struggle with them.
I look forward to seeing them on the track.
I was also surprised to see it come with a spool as the average club racer seems to struggle with them.
I look forward to seeing them on the track.
Although lower CG may improve performance it must be shared across the entire platform.
02-06-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by Ill Factor
Hey guys. The following question is being asked with zero malice involved. I have a buddy who has an EC and It looks as though the topdeack has been raised, in a time when almost every company has gone to great lengths to lower CG it seems shall we say "against the grain". I have driven Shuies before so I am familiar with them and to me this looks to be the tallest I can remember (my 1st was the Axis Pro). Is there something else in the design that helps to counteract the high CG or is CG like the Colts (overy hyped)?
I was also surprised to see it come with a spool as the average club racer seems to struggle with them.
I look forward to seeing them on the track.
I was also surprised to see it come with a spool as the average club racer seems to struggle with them.
I look forward to seeing them on the track.
Plus, I like the fact that the EC is different to the 415!! All these new cars are just clones of each other.....
Iain
02-06-2006, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by STLNLST
cornerspeed- Just bring some Jaco's doublepink rears and Oranger double pink fronts and you will be fine. DON'T BRING THE WRAPS the bite isn't high enough for a club race for them to be a factor. Start out with Mo's set up and go from there. His has a bit more steering than mine. It all depends on your driving style.
PF Pontiac G6 or something else? Hope I can find something.
02-06-2006, 07:11 PM
[QUOTE=cornerspeed]Whats the WRAPS?
PF Pontiac G6 or something else? Hope I can find something.[/QUOTE
Wraps are the 2 stage tire's that guys have been running at the bigger carpet races. As far as tire's go.....I don't have extra's set aside already trued up and ready to go. Most of us are running the G6 body so you should be set in that department. Truing tire's won't be that hard at the track.
PF Pontiac G6 or something else? Hope I can find something.
[/QUOTEWraps are the 2 stage tire's that guys have been running at the bigger carpet races. As far as tire's go.....I don't have extra's set aside already trued up and ready to go. Most of us are running the G6 body so you should be set in that department. Truing tire's won't be that hard at the track.
02-06-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Iain
I can certainly see your point, the EC is the tallest of the tourer's, but honestly, how much does a top deck weigh?? Not much, even the bulkeahds wouldn't weigh a great deal, so while I think the EC's COG would be higher than the 415's and copies, I don't think it would be a massive difference that would mean a lot in the handling.
Plus, I like the fact that the EC is different to the 415!! All these new cars are just clones of each other.....
Iain
Plus, I like the fact that the EC is different to the 415!! All these new cars are just clones of each other.....
Iain
I can say that I noticed a difference between my standard 415 and my new T2 when talking about corner speed and I have them set up similarly. I wouyld be interested to know what you guys find as you drive it more. Oh and thanks for not flaming.. :0
02-06-2006, 08:16 PM
Tech Regular
When considering your center of gravity, one thing you have to consider is traction. A higher center of gravity means more weight transfer and more traction (in most cases). This means that a low CG car needs a different roll center in order to transfer weight compared to a car that has a higher CG. A high CG car you would generally run lower roll center or stiffer sway bars etc. What is way more important is the total weight of a car, the weight distribution fore and aft, and the mass of the driveline components.
I recently spent several hours at the roar nats speaking with one of the most influential and successful touring car racers in world, and this topic was brought up. He told told me that just to see how ridiculous the center of gravity issue was taped an extra battery pack (6 cell) to the top of his car and spent an entire day practicing and tuning to see how much difference there was in lap times. In the end of the day, he said that his lap times were only give or take 2 tenths per lap slower, and he attributed it to the extra weight not the CG change. I personally have never tried this, but I figured it was an interesting enough story to pass along.
The whole center of gravity thing is blown way out of proportion and is mostly a marketing ploy (most noticeably the lay down throttle servos in 1/8 buggies-stupid) taking advantage of theory and concept.-Jeff
I recently spent several hours at the roar nats speaking with one of the most influential and successful touring car racers in world, and this topic was brought up. He told told me that just to see how ridiculous the center of gravity issue was taped an extra battery pack (6 cell) to the top of his car and spent an entire day practicing and tuning to see how much difference there was in lap times. In the end of the day, he said that his lap times were only give or take 2 tenths per lap slower, and he attributed it to the extra weight not the CG change. I personally have never tried this, but I figured it was an interesting enough story to pass along.
The whole center of gravity thing is blown way out of proportion and is mostly a marketing ploy (most noticeably the lay down throttle servos in 1/8 buggies-stupid) taking advantage of theory and concept.-Jeff
02-06-2006, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jay Dub
When considering your center of gravity, one thing you have to consider is traction. A higher center of gravity means more weight transfer and more traction (in most cases). This means that a low CG car needs a different roll center in order to transfer weight compared to a car that has a higher CG. A high CG car you would generally run lower roll center or stiffer sway bars etc. What is way more important is the total weight of a car, the weight distribution fore and aft, and the mass of the driveline components.
I recently spent several hours at the roar nats speaking with one of the most influential and successful touring car racers in world, and this topic was brought up. He told told me that just to see how ridiculous the center of gravity issue was taped an extra battery pack (6 cell) to the top of his car and spent an entire day practicing and tuning to see how much difference there was in lap times. In the end of the day, he said that his lap times were only give or take 2 tenths per lap slower, and he attributed it to the extra weight not the CG change. I personally have never tried this, but I figured it was an interesting enough story to pass along.
The whole center of gravity thing is blown way out of proportion and is mostly a marketing ploy (most noticeably the lay down throttle servos in 1/8 buggies-stupid) taking advantage of theory and concept.-Jeff
I recently spent several hours at the roar nats speaking with one of the most influential and successful touring car racers in world, and this topic was brought up. He told told me that just to see how ridiculous the center of gravity issue was taped an extra battery pack (6 cell) to the top of his car and spent an entire day practicing and tuning to see how much difference there was in lap times. In the end of the day, he said that his lap times were only give or take 2 tenths per lap slower, and he attributed it to the extra weight not the CG change. I personally have never tried this, but I figured it was an interesting enough story to pass along.
The whole center of gravity thing is blown way out of proportion and is mostly a marketing ploy (most noticeably the lay down throttle servos in 1/8 buggies-stupid) taking advantage of theory and concept.-Jeff
Great response Jeff.
02-06-2006, 10:06 PM
Ill - The Top deck on the EC is 2mm higher than on the previous Mi2. The top deck on the Mi2EC Foam Spec is the same height as on the older Mi2.
There are a lot of features that are on modern sedans that are there more for fashion reasons than substantial engineering reasons.
Low tops deck are one of them. They do lower the CG (which is good on carpet but bad on asphalt) but they cause other problems. Cars with lower top decks have less torsional stiffness due to the smaller box section so they have to compensate with heavier, thicker upper and lower chassis plates.
Relying on thicker chassis for torsional stiffness makes the interfaces between the chassis plates and the bulkheads more critical. They have to mate solidly or you can have tweak issues. This means bigger (heavier) bulkheads and more screws at the mating surfaces to make the joints solid.
The structural advantages to a higher top deck are many. The performance advantages of a low top deck are few.
There are a lot of features that are on modern sedans that are there more for fashion reasons than substantial engineering reasons.
Low tops deck are one of them. They do lower the CG (which is good on carpet but bad on asphalt) but they cause other problems. Cars with lower top decks have less torsional stiffness due to the smaller box section so they have to compensate with heavier, thicker upper and lower chassis plates.
Relying on thicker chassis for torsional stiffness makes the interfaces between the chassis plates and the bulkheads more critical. They have to mate solidly or you can have tweak issues. This means bigger (heavier) bulkheads and more screws at the mating surfaces to make the joints solid.
The structural advantages to a higher top deck are many. The performance advantages of a low top deck are few.
02-07-2006, 05:45 AM
hmmmm where did I hear that before