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Old 08-26-2002, 06:10 PM
  #2776  
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I USE ASSOCIATED SPRINGS ON MY MISSION.THEY WORK VERY WELL . NO PROBLEMS WITH RIDE HEIGHT.BLUE GOLD RED THEY ALL WORK GREAT WITH THE MISSION.
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Old 08-26-2002, 06:39 PM
  #2777  
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I run associated springs,They work very good. If you get them get the spring set not the springs in the little packegs. It will run you about $30
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:08 PM
  #2778  
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Thanks
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Old 08-28-2002, 04:51 PM
  #2779  
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guys whats going on?...halfway down the page?..

I have something to start some discussion hopefully...
after switching to the roll centre mod, I noticed the improved mid corner and exit front end grip, but as expected, less initial steering response.

I noted that when doing the mod, that the front lower arm had to be placed to the forward most position, so the droop tabs would clear the steering bellcranks at full lock. (as the lower arm is now 2mm higher).

whatdo you all think the result of having the front arms in the forward most position is?..I am wondering whether this has contributed to the change in handling?..(I have my conclusions, but would like to hear other opinions..)

as with rear wheel base, shorter yeilds more weight over the rear axle, and more response, and Long yeilds more stability at high speed, but also more steering overall (as there is less weight on the rear axle) and also the pendulum effect.
I am currently running long wheel base at the rear, perhaps I should go back to the middle position to gain more response (initial).

I am also rnning the stiff upper deck (which I felt increased responsiveness)

also running the arms forward has given me less cator, which is why I guess some guys are modifying their bulkheads, as I am already at the minimum setting, which is now around 8 degrees.

looking for some others input as to some different things to try when you have changed the front R/C..to progress the car even further.

F.Y.I, I am running takeoff 22-27 on asphalt, Modified.
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Old 08-28-2002, 05:53 PM
  #2780  
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King- I did the RC mod by cutting an old chassis and making plates to place under the front brace and steering brackets/pivot points. This raised the steering assembly with the lower hinge pin. I find this to be a better way for myself beacuse it sets the ackerman at a better position with the ti-rods almost totally horizontal when the car is at ride height. If you want to maintain the ackerman as stock just remover the 2 spacers below the inner pivot ball on the steering arms. I also run dual stock top-decks which are stiffer for-aft, and almost as stiff side-to-side as the carpet top-deck.

I don't think that the RC mod removes that much initial steering, probably the additional 2 deg. of caster is what is acting out on your mod. I do feel however that the car is much more stable thru the entire turn, and it does add more center-exit steering w/o sacrificing any rear-end traction.
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Old 08-28-2002, 10:55 PM
  #2781  
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thanks for your input IMPACTPLAYR, yeah I have a feeling that teh reduced castor s the main culprite..

is this then why Paul W ran rear arms in teh front, to give less sweep on the arms, and allow even less castor.

I have been thinking about removing 2mm of the rear facing side of the bulkhead to allow less castor by adding another 2mm shim...

for those that have done this, does it reduce the strength significantly of the B.H..and does it induce any slop as there is less contact with the hingepin/Bulkhead?..

I would like to run around 4-6 degrees of castor with the R/C mod.

also, I have tried running the ackerman with the same geometry as you are stating by adding another 2mm spacer under each ball stud, this flattened the turnbuckle angle at ride height as you stated. and gave slightly more lock at compression of the outer wheel in a turn. (shouldnt ever be needed unless your track consists of lots of hairpins).
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Old 08-28-2002, 10:57 PM
  #2782  
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man I gotta break the habbit of spelling The as teh...must be typing too fast, ,its really bugging me now!..,I see it often though so it must plague others as well.

The, the the the the the the the....teh...arrgghhh!
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Old 08-30-2002, 12:51 AM
  #2783  
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Well, the first outing with the Mission went pretty well.
Placed in the A-main after swapping out the servo when the gears stripped. Think the servo saver was a bit tight, I had it screwed down as far as I could tighten it by hand.

I found a lack of rear end grip when applying power out of the tight corners. Any ideas how to cure this. I am still playing with springs but would the rear 2 deg inboard set up help any.
The surface is very slick (polished wood) and was also dusty last night. Usually a soft spring and oil combo works well but I could still do with a bit more rear end grip.

Apart from that I was very impressed with the Mission. It is easy to work on and was certainly quick in stock class. I would imagine it will get quicker as everything starts to bed in.

Rear diff is silky smooth after last nights racing. Front diff is still a little notchy. If it doesn't bed in in the next meeting I'll strip it and re-adjust.

Yorkie
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Old 08-30-2002, 02:19 AM
  #2784  
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You could try moving the rear wishbones forward and increasing anti-squat. Also you could try less castor and only front sway-bar. Do you run the front one-way? You should.
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Old 08-30-2002, 06:39 PM
  #2785  
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King G....I have been running the upper bulk head with the 2mm shaved off the back side for some time now and I have not noticed any ill effects. The bulkhead is just as strong as stock and the slop can be taken out by using Teflon Motor shims. I have run the rear arms in the front and that does help reduce castor as the pivot ball is not angled in the socket on the arm. When I was running rubber tires I ran 4 deg of castor and that was 2 at the upper arm and 2 deg of kick up and I liked this alot inside on carpet and outside on asphalt. For foams on carpet the car is a little easier to drive with more castor for me. With foams I run 6 deg of castor 4 at the upper arm and 2deg of kick up in the front.
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Old 08-31-2002, 08:52 AM
  #2786  
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Yorkie: The 2d inboard toe will add rear traction, but some free that it will slow the car a tenth or two per lap. Start with 3d rear outboard toe (if you arn't already running it), go to the shorter wheelbase in the rear, and/or run the 2d inboard toe. All should give you more rear traction. Hope that helps....
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Old 08-31-2002, 10:01 AM
  #2787  
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Racer X- Are you racing Ripon today? I'm going to go down with the cop if he's still going.
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Old 09-01-2002, 08:26 AM
  #2788  
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Thanks for the replies on the rear grip.

If I remember rightly I added anti squat to the Axis and ran with 3deg rear toe in.

I'll try adding the anti squat and shorter wheel base and see how we go from there. If all esle fails I'll go to the inboard toe in.

One thing I did notice about the mission was the turn of speed coming out of the corners. It picked up really quick and at one point I thought I had it undergeared as the accelleration was great. The gearing was just right though so maybe I am not used to the extra speed coming out of tight corners???

Thanks again for the help.

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Old 09-01-2002, 09:53 AM
  #2789  
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The mission has great corner speed and acelleration.Especially with the one-way. Yea I would say a shorter wheel base and 3 degrees toe in. that would help a million. If that dosnt help try a tad bit softer spring or softer compound tires in the rear.Another thing is that when its hot outside (you probley already know this) the car wants to get sqirley for this problem during the day I run a harder compound tire, I run Sorex 36r during the day and cs-27 during the night. Ive been through this many times and it sucks when the back of your car is all over the track.

Last edited by fireblade; 09-01-2002 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 09-01-2002, 06:51 PM
  #2790  
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Yorkie- on low traction surfaces, you should remove the rear swaybar assuming you're running one. This will increase the bias of traction towards the rear and make the car much easier to drive. You will then be able to decrease the rear toe to 1 or even .5deg per side thus increasing corner speed and decreasing scrub so the car can go faster on the straights. I personally use the zero degree arm setting with this setup.
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