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Old 10-22-2007, 07:43 PM   #22456
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More Kerr/Goetz bait . . .or anyone else for that matter

I was traction rolling several weeks ago when I was using the stiff topdeck. I borrowed McGoo's 2.5 mm carpet topdeck and the traction roll went away. I want to run two cars at an upcoming race and likely wont have the carpet topdeck or the carpet chassis to use. What changes would you make to a car with flexier chassis components to compensate for the added flex to avoid the traction roll?

I ask this not just for myself, but also because of a very cool situation at our track. We have lots of newer drivers and many of them are looking at the schumacher because of Marker, Yang, and McGoo finesse and driving skill with te car. We thought it would be an advantage if we could develop a fast setup for them right out of the box instead of telling them "the setup to run involves another 1-200$ in CF add ons". It would be nice to tell them "you can go fast without buying anything extra other than springs, a set of foams, and a body" Just thought I'd verbalize some of the thinking going on down here in Tejas.

Thoughts??
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:02 PM   #22457
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You can raise your suspension arms, go with stiffer shock springs, glue the sidewalls on the front tires. Or all of the above

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
More Kerr/Goetz bait . . .or anyone else for that matter

I was traction rolling several weeks ago when I was using the stiff topdeck. I borrowed McGoo's 2.5 mm carpet topdeck and the traction roll went away. I want to run two cars at an upcoming race and likely wont have the carpet topdeck or the carpet chassis to use. What changes would you make to a car with flexier chassis components to compensate for the added flex to avoid the traction roll?

I ask this not just for myself, but also because of a very cool situation at our track. We have lots of newer drivers and many of them are looking at the schumacher because of Marker, Yang, and McGoo finesse and driving skill with te car. We thought it would be an advantage if we could develop a fast setup for them right out of the box instead of telling them "the setup to run involves another 1-200$ in CF add ons". It would be nice to tell them "you can go fast without buying anything extra other than springs, a set of foams, and a body" Just thought I'd verbalize some of the thinking going on down here in Tejas.

Thoughts??
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:05 PM   #22458
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You can also get another stiff top deck for the stock 2mm chassis. This should stiffen the car up a lot. The 2.5mm lower chassis does not contribute a lot more stiffness over the 2mm lower chassis.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:17 PM   #22459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
You can also get another stiff top deck for the stock 2mm chassis. This should stiffen the car up a lot. The 2.5mm lower chassis does not contribute a lot more stiffness over the 2mm lower chassis.
The only top deck I have now aside from the factory top deck is the "stiff" top deck . . .and my car was traction rolling with that one. The only combination I have tried that didn't traction roll was the "2.5 carpet top deck" and the kit lower chassis.

Interesting that you felt the thicker lower chassis didn't contribute much to the stiffness.

Any sense in stacking topdecks to get extra stiffness? Or am I just asking for tweak demons?
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:19 PM   #22460
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What are the effects of anti-squat?
Does it gives me a bit more rear end Grip?
Many Thanx ...
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:20 PM   #22461
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Sorry, I meant get another 2.5mm top deck to run with your stock lower chassis.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:25 PM   #22462
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Originally Posted by yokemad View Post
What are the effects of anti-squat?
Does it gives me a bit more rear end Grip?
Many Thanx ...
More on power rear traction, less off power rear traction.

It can help get the car to rotate more entering a corner but often you pay for it mid corner and exiting as it can lock up the rear end as you accelerate and this makes the car push.

We tend to not use anti-squat and use other settings than can generate the same positive result without the negative....

...like leaning in the rear shocks to get more rear rotation (less rear traction) through the whole corner or standing them up a hole to get less rotation (more rear traction).
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:30 PM   #22463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yokemad View Post
What are the effects of anti-squat?
Does it gives me a bit more rear end Grip?
Many Thanx ...
Anti-squat limits the wieght transfer to the rear of the car. It will give you more "on-power" steering and also alittle bit of "off-power" steering as well.
I've had good luck with it "calming the rear down" on bump tracks.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:41 PM   #22464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
Anti Squat helps to direct the car into the center of the track when hitting the pipe. I do this alot and if i cant let go of the throttle i just use a little more anti squat. The problem i run into when not using enough is what they call the domino effect. I hit one pipe and my throttle finger sticks with the throttle full and i keep breaking the pipes as this continues. When this happens i just go to 1 degree more anit squat until this clears up.It can sometimes be very painfull to watch.
Very good explination. You need to stop giving away your speed secrets
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:03 PM   #22465
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Thats just wrong
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:08 PM   #22466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
More Kerr/Goetz bait . . .or anyone else for that matter

I was traction rolling several weeks ago when I was using the stiff topdeck. I borrowed McGoo's 2.5 mm carpet topdeck and the traction roll went away. I want to run two cars at an upcoming race and likely wont have the carpet topdeck or the carpet chassis to use. What changes would you make to a car with flexier chassis components to compensate for the added flex to avoid the traction roll?

I ask this not just for myself, but also because of a very cool situation at our track. We have lots of newer drivers and many of them are looking at the schumacher because of Marker, Yang, and McGoo finesse and driving skill with te car. We thought it would be an advantage if we could develop a fast setup for them right out of the box instead of telling them "the setup to run involves another 1-200$ in CF add ons". It would be nice to tell them "you can go fast without buying anything extra other than springs, a set of foams, and a body" Just thought I'd verbalize some of the thinking going on down here in Tejas.

Thoughts??
Andrew,

I have Chris's Mi3 and it is with the 13.5 and stock chassis and the "stiff" top deck. I was not traction rolling with it this evening. but he has the 4degree blocks in the car and also has a small kimbrough servo saver. other then that it has Mcgoo's setup. I ran 58mm tire and well as 54mm tires and it worked ok. the car did not have enough turn in on power. but I think that is because of his servo saver. the thing just does not generate enough throw. the front wheels don't turn enough. I need to find a medium saver intown somewhere. i did move to the 5 degree blocks. no traction roll, but also not quite enough turn. I was able to run consistent 12.4, but felt it was slow in the section in front of the drivers stand. will work on it some more tomorrow evening and see.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:22 PM   #22467
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Nevermind...that thread search option is cool! I found it!
PW told me you were a pretty smart cookie, unlike mr protc3 and his lame 30 minutes and that's all you got come backs.....sheesh....maybe inhaling too much carbon fiber....
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:26 PM   #22468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
Andrew,

I have Chris's Mi3 and it is with the 13.5 and stock chassis and the "stiff" top deck. I was not traction rolling with it this evening. but he has the 4degree blocks in the car and also has a small kimbrough servo saver. other then that it has Mcgoo's setup. I ran 58mm tire and well as 54mm tires and it worked ok. the car did not have enough turn in on power. but I think that is because of his servo saver. the thing just does not generate enough throw. the front wheels don't turn enough. I need to find a medium saver intown somewhere. i did move to the 5 degree blocks. no traction roll, but also not quite enough turn. I was able to run consistent 12.4, but felt it was slow in the section in front of the drivers stand. will work on it some more tomorrow evening and see.
Yang, i think i have one more Kimbrough medium, but not sure, i will have to check my pit box...also, when I was running my 2.0 chassis I was bouncing back and forth between a softer front springs for both front and rear....just something to think about....

I have some plastic 6's in my room - feel free to jack them from my pitbox.....
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:33 PM   #22469
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Originally Posted by Mr. McGoo View Post
Yang, i think i have one more Kimbrough medium, but not sure, i will have to check my pit box...also, when I was running my 2.0 chassis I was bouncing back and forth between a softer front springs for both front and rear....just something to think about....

I have some plastic 6's in my room - feel free to jack them from my pitbox.....
Do you know the spring rates for the Xray Lt.Red and Lt.Blue springs?

Many color blind Xray racers are SCREWED
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:34 PM   #22470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. McGoo View Post
Yang, i think i have one more Kimbrough medium, but not sure, i will have to check my pit box...also, when I was running my 2.0 chassis I was bouncing back and forth between a softer front springs for both front and rear....just something to think about....

I have some plastic 6's in my room - feel free to jack them from my pitbox.....

thanks, i will take you up on that. I put the "freebe" saver we got at the IIC in mine. and tim lost his. Funny no one in town stocks them (Mike's, T&T) I have some 6 blocks are well, I will try that tomorrow and see.

oh yeah, one other thing. the center track rod mount is one forward from the full back position. this also reduces the throw of the steering rack. I believe everyone with the orion 4800 lipo has this problem. I could not get enough clearance with the mount in the most rear postion.it would just hit the battery
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