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Old 03-17-2004, 07:44 PM   #16
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i don't think ae should do anything yet, because why mess w/ something that is already awesome, like tamiya they come out w/ a new car every yr and they don't really allow one car build up to its expectations, and if ae would start working on it the main thing is a better drive train to make it free er and then mayb centered batteries down the chassis but i don't think of seeing them doin that anytime soon though. TC3 is still dominating out there.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:50 PM   #17
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I will have to say that the TC3 did make a huge impact on TC racing. At the Pro Level the fast guys were still fast no matter what car they raced....Losi IWC, Schumacher 99Pro, Tamiya TAO4, Yokomo YMserries...they were all fast. But with the stock and club racer it did make the most impact. I mean how many years in a row did Josh dominate with a IWC over TC3's on carpet?...that shows it wasnt a huge impact on the Pro level. For last few years the TC3 has been the car to run in Stock class with Foam tires on carpet....with Rubber tires all the cars were fast. Now this winter racing season it looks like the TC3 is not up to speed so something needs to change. What big race has a TC3 won stock at on carpet this season other then the Halloween race? Everyother race has been an Xray and XXXS and look at how many more other cars are now in the top 10. In years past it was all TC3's or 8 out of 10 in the A mains were TC3's in the stock class. Now this year they are lucky to get 5 in the show. The car has and is showing its age now.....and Im sure that they are working on getting something new and faster out there just like everyone else is.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:52 PM   #18
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My TC3 wish list-which incidentily is about everythng on the HPI pro4!!!

Lower CG on diff cases,
Lower Roll center hingepin mounts made from aluminum with spacers.
Delrin or teflon balls on the hingepin ends for ultra smooth movement.
6 degree C-hubs and strnger steering knuckles.
Lower shock tower in front to slam bodies.
Bladders in shocks and smoother bore in the shocks.
Vertival ballstuds on rear hubs.
Vertical ballstuds for inner hingepin mounts.
Batteries moved in closer-option to tape or use strap.
Chassis weights.
Better steering rack with improved ackerman.
Chassis that doesnt warp from heat.

I guess thats it.....

Ray
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
AMG-yup-thats my point as well-in a way-what innovation is out there? Some F1 technology where theres no more ballcups and balljoints? The arms are molded with a flexible material at the ends which are bolted to the bulkheads? or maybe inboard shocks or even better shocks with independant bump and rebound?? Or maybe a hybrid drivetrain of some sort??

If you spin a IWC's drivetrain now-youd be scared!!! ts hard to spin and stops as soon as you let go!!!
There are plenty of innovations still to be made in RC, but a good number of them may not or will not happen due to cost restrictions. Right now to sell well a kit has to be priced around $300. The second large consideration is the packaging of the support equipment. ESCs, receivers motors and definately batteries all limit chassis design. So do IFMAR rules.

Some things which would definately benefit electric Racing:

1. Flat batteries similar to the OFNA "brick" batteries used for gas car receiver packs. Mount them UNDER centre belts for example.
2. Ground effects similar to those somewhat begun by Yokomo in their old car (i forget the chassis name).
3. Redesigned motors with much lower rotating mass. Some small slot cars motors can pull 120,000 rpm with tiny armatures.
4. A different lighter diff design rather than the ball diff.
5. Wireless servos and ESCs, "bluetooth" style connection to the RX unit.
6. A total move away from the traditional bulkhead and flat chassis style of car with ladder and I-beam style centre support and using the motor/motor mount as a stressed member.
7. And the BIGGEST limiting factor right now, tire grip.

What do you think.............
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:55 PM   #20
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KevinK-Yours and Smykas Losi's at the Halloween Classic were STUPID fast in stock!! Thats when i said-ummmm-I think Losi figured out something new in stock!!!

Ray
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Old 03-17-2004, 08:01 PM   #21
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Ray.....And that was with out any Belt tricks(that I know of) and or the black belt...just think if we had that stuff then...lol. Yeah that was a great race Mark's car was Silly fast and would have been TQ I bet if his wheel had stayed on. That just goes to say that the Nats are going to an awesome race and will be one of the best STOCK races to date.....man is that class stacked with fast guys.....get a top 20 at that race and you are really fast for sure.
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Old 03-17-2004, 08:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Will there ever be another TC3???

Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
Will there ever be another TC3???
Easy answer: NOPE!..................................




There will be a TC4!!! Haha...just felt like messing around.

-etzkev
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Old 03-17-2004, 08:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin K
What big race has a TC3 won stock at on carpet this season other then the Halloween race? Everyother race has been an Xray and XXXS and look at how many more other cars are now in the top 10.
kevin, some very valid points in your post, however the post overlooks an important fact....who is running stock.

many sponsors, are sending their 100% (+ help on travel) drivers to these events to run stock. i don't know, maybe their products/drivers aren't up to the task of competing in mod, and they take whatever victories they can get (a couple battery matchers come to mind). i'm sure if other racers 'came down' in classes (mod->19->stock->novice respectively), the results would be just like 19t has become over the the past year or two (with the same fast mod racers filling the 19t a).

do i think better cars are why the tc3's are winning stock this year, no. i think there are more competitive cars on the market (good thing), and more sponsored drivers running stock (not necessarily a good thing).

as far as 'revolutionary', no i doubt there will be any new advances from a chassis perspective. individual ideas will always be put into new kits, maybe these kits as a whole are better/faster/stronger than whats already out there, but i doubt any 'entire package' will be worthy of the term revolutionary.
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:02 PM   #24
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Gee-Dub....True some of the guys in the stock mains are sponsored but at what level I dont know. But yes there is more "sponsored" guys in stock but most of them have earned it they were in the A-mains before the "bigger" sponsorships....a few that come to mind would be FlakK, Darroch, Lopez and Smyka. I dont know what these guys had in the past but they were in the A most of the time then but now they have more help and are now UP front in the A mains. So you are right that there might be more sponsored drivers in stock but really its the same guys that have been there before but now they are getting better help and people are saying that they are too sponsored to be in there. Im sure that these guys are not going to keep racing stock for another 3 or 5 years. I have seen Flakk and Darroch both run mod and they are really close to the fast guys so Im sure it wont be long until they move out of stock. So I will say that there is more sponsored guys in stock but is it the guys that were there before that have more help now or is it guys that are moving down from running at the pro level to running stock?
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:07 PM   #25
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AMGRacer
[B]There are plenty of innovations still to be made in RC, but a good number of them may not or will not happen due to cost restrictions. Right now to sell well a kit has to be priced around $300. The second large consideration is the packaging of the support equipment. ESCs, receivers motors and definately batteries all limit chassis design. So do IFMAR rules.

Some things which would definately benefit electric Racing:

1. Flat batteries similar to the OFNA "brick" batteries used for gas car receiver packs. Mount them UNDER centre belts for example.
2. Ground effects similar to those somewhat begun by Yokomo in their old car (i forget the chassis name).
3. Redesigned motors with much lower rotating mass. Some small slot cars motors can pull 120,000 rpm with tiny armatures.
4. A different lighter diff design rather than the ball diff.
5. Wireless servos and ESCs, "bluetooth" style connection to the RX unit.
6. A total move away from the traditional bulkhead and flat chassis style of car with ladder and I-beam style centre support and using the motor/motor mount as a stressed member.

all are good ideas, but number 5 is not theoretically possible. You can have a signal transmitted wirelessly, but not current/voltage. If that were possible, people would just be standing around, then BAM you get electrocuted by a flying bolt of voltage! But anyways, it was a good thought. They do make a bluetooth radio, BTW, it is made by a small company around here, but it is basically a waste of time, the unit sucks. The range sucks, and it lacks lots of features, dual rates, expos, etc. If you're really interested, PM me, and I can give you their email address.
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:11 PM   #26
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How many more the-next-tc3 threads are the gonna be?
Probably thousands before AE obliges?
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:22 PM   #27
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This isnt a next Tc3 thread though... I used that as a metaphor.

Though it has digressed there hasnt it!!!

I have bought and driven the XXXS, XXXS Graphite, G+, FTTC3, Demon1, BMI etc3, Xray EVo2, Tamiya EvoIII, Warpspeed Xray, BMI Xray and I gotta tell you all-they are all capable of going as fast as each other. Its hard to imagine after tryng all of them and hoping for some magic that one cars gonna sweep us off our collectve feet.

But-yu never know!!! All it takes is time and a whole lot of money!!

Ray
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:22 PM   #28
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rob Hochberg
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
There are plenty of innovations still to be made in RC, but a good number of them may not or will not happen due to cost restrictions. Right now to sell well a kit has to be priced around $300. The second large consideration is the packaging of the support equipment. ESCs, receivers motors and definately batteries all limit chassis design. So do IFMAR rules.

Some things which would definately benefit electric Racing:

1. Flat batteries similar to the OFNA "brick" batteries used for gas car receiver packs. Mount them UNDER centre belts for example.
2. Ground effects similar to those somewhat begun by Yokomo in their old car (i forget the chassis name).
3. Redesigned motors with much lower rotating mass. Some small slot cars motors can pull 120,000 rpm with tiny armatures.
4. A different lighter diff design rather than the ball diff.
5. Wireless servos and ESCs, "bluetooth" style connection to the RX unit.
6. A total move away from the traditional bulkhead and flat chassis style of car with ladder and I-beam style centre support and using the motor/motor mount as a stressed member.

all are good ideas, but number 5 is not theoretically possible. You can have a signal transmitted wirelessly, but not current/voltage. If that were possible, people would just be standing around, then BAM you get electrocuted by a flying bolt of voltage! But anyways, it was a good thought. They do make a bluetooth radio, BTW, it is made by a small company around here, but it is basically a waste of time, the unit sucks. The range sucks, and it lacks lots of features, dual rates, expos, etc. If you're really interested, PM me, and I can give you their email address.
Yep I was more thinking signals via bluetooth and battery operated servos and RX. Quite a lot of pros are already using small battery packs to power there servos right now. Saves on a lot of wiring and you can mount the units anywhere then............... Just an idea of course
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:44 PM   #29
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i would like to see associated just come out with some updates for the car like a new chassis and the blocks to change the roll centers. I think it is bs that we have to cut up a car to have what the pro's have.
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Old 03-17-2004, 11:03 PM   #30
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First of all, I don't see any point in bluetooth receivers. The wires used are so slim, how much trouble is it to have them in the car, and zip tie up the excess? I think bluetooth would bring much, much more trouble than it would be worth, and would bring no advantage what-so-ever. Same thing with servos, if a company designing a car wanted to do something different with the placement of receivers and servos, they could easily do so via the use of "tunnels" for the wires, which are most definitely long enough. Further more, with bluetooth I would think you would have to mess around with frequencies - no fun. Iím sorry if this sounds like Iím trying to squash your idea, but thatís how I see it.

As for the TC3 loosing it's competitiveness, I think that's bull. Maybe in stock more manufacturers are seeing their cars in the A, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the TC3 is still excelling at almost every race in the mod and 19T classes. The TC3 was probably so popular in stock in past years because it's drivetrain presented a significant advantage over other cars, an advantage much needed in stock. However, now more and more companies have cars with drivetrains that rival, or outperform that of the TC3.

Rob Hochberg, just wanted to point out that if you lower the rotating mass significantly, chances are you are going to loose a ton of torque.

I think a change AE could make to improve the TC3 for carpet would be to release good quality machined arm mounts, as all of the fast guys have been machining the stock parts to produce a lower roll center. Apart from the arm mount mod, the only other thing I can think of that people have been doing is using the Losi rear hubs, which is easy enough to do.

The Pro 4 looks very promising, but I have to wonder whether the chassis will be stiff enough for mod foam on carpet. One of the reasons the Losi and TC3 excel so much in this class is because of their extremely stiff molded chassis, and I can't see the Pro 4's chassis, which looks to be 2mm c/f, being as stiff.

Josh
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