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Old 01-03-2010, 09:02 PM   #1
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Default Legal/Illegal Speed Controllers

Would I be out of line proposing that ROAR approve speed controllers based on street price rather than technology. Should stock classes have to run speed controllers costing under $200 and Spec classes be under $250 or $300. This would ensure that price isn't winning races and ensure that winning speed controls are available to all of us. ROAR had this rule on stock brushed motors when the speed was in the motor, should it now be carried over to the speed control when it seems the power is there now.

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Old 01-03-2010, 09:49 PM   #2
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That rule works for me, but I'm entirely biased.

My favorite, the Tekin RS is fully update-able, and now once again on top by all accounts.

The Mamba Max Pro is also update-able, so I don't have anything against it.

These two are available under $200.

The Kinetic, also update-able, and I'm sure the price will come down a bit on it in a few months. It's hovering right at the $200 mark, ATM.

Any of the speedos that can't be updated and cost as much as a high end TC kit... they might be fast when first introduced, but IMO, you have to be real desperate for an advantage to drop that much coin on hardware that can't be updated in this day and age.

That mentality doesn't take any rule changes, or cost caps, just a little patience if your speedo falls behind a bit before the next software update.

As for spec profiles, timing limits and rules against what you can and can't do with a speedo... I say stick to what you can tech, ie: gear ratios, motor winds, rotor strength, tire compounds, chassis weight, and bodies.

Back when 2000mAh NiCds were new and NiMh batteries were being rumored, we used to put a cap on battery capacity to help control cost [oval]. After everyone caught up on batteries, then it was a new motor war, so we had a "breakout" class, turn more than X laps in Y minutes, and you lose. The lap figure was determined by having the recognized "best" driver at the track drive with the cheapest rebuildable 27T motor available with a cheaper unmatched pack, drive a clean heat and add a lap for driving error.

Personally, I think we should start capping battery capacity again, or make the races long enough that you can't just make the car fast and know you're good on run time in stock. 3600mAh, and 10 minutes in 17.5 TC is entirely doable, unless you get greedy on timing and outright speed
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:55 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Cammer View Post
Would I be out of line proposing that ROAR approve speed controllers based on street price rather than technology. Should stock classes have to run speed controllers costing under $200 and Spec classes be under $250 or $300. This would ensure that price isn't winning races and ensure that winning speed controls are available to all of us. ROAR had this rule on stock brushed motors when the speed was in the motor, should it now be carried over to the speed control when it seems the power is there now.

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The two big stock speedos are both under 200 dollars any ways. The Tekin RS and the Castle MMP. For mod the Tekin RS Pro and again the Castle MMP easily fit the under 250 range.

Speedos do play apart but so do driving and setup. Without driving and good setups the speedo really won't help you other than to maybe hit things faster than normal.
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:31 AM   #4
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:09 AM   #5
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i oppenion dosnt matter because im from denmark, but my view on this is simple. if the the speedo gets faster and faster, and to a point where its too fast for a given class, then use 21.5t instead of 17.5 and use 17.5t instead of 13.5 and so on.. and 21.5t wich im driving is nice and smooth, and im running a RS pro in a TC rubber T3 car.. and speed is absolutly not everything. driving and setup has atleast as mush to say.. atleast in stock class.. just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:19 AM   #6
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i oppenion dosnt matter because im from denmark, but my view on this is simple. if the the speedo gets faster and faster, and to a point where its too fast for a given class, then use 21.5t instead of 17.5 and use 17.5t instead of 13.5 and so on.. and 21.5t wich im driving is nice and smooth, and im running a RS pro in a TC rubber T3 car.. and speed is absolutly not everything. driving and setup has atleast as mush to say.. atleast in stock class.. just my 2 cents.
I agree. I drove the V203 and my car was like a rocket.
I didn't win because my old setup couldn't handle so much power.
Also was it hard to keep the driving lines.
I drive 10,5 lipo but this was much to fast for me.
I'm glad we have in the summer 13,5T lipo.
10,5 lipo with this speedo is much to much for me.
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:23 AM   #7
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Its an interesting problem but I don't think any rule they make against the ESC can't be defeated in another way. So you will end up going full circle and end up in the same position. A simple solution would be to have a speed limit for different spec classes and two loops to track it on the main straight. I can't think of an easier way to limit speed without impacting on the technology we have in our cars at the moment.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:08 AM   #8
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A stock/spec/entry-level controller should feature these characteristics:

~ under $100.00, "street price"
~ on-board programming, only
~ no advanced timing or boost circuitry
~ stand-alone design (no PC input)
~ built-in, over-heating protection
~ service parts availability

The profile above is offered primarily to open a discussion for offering an affordable controller to attract new customers into the R/C hobby. This type of product could level the playing field for those who do not wish to spend a lot of money, or deal with the complexity, of the new esc/motor technology.

"Spec" racing has become the new modified, with few options for those who want to get involved; they have neither the money (nor time) to deal with the frustration, or equipment damage, that can accompany these newest controllers. Using a spec esc, participants could compete based on the talent and ability of the driver and not just on how much money he can spend.

This way speed control manufacturers could compete by offering customers the best (most affordable) "Spec" controller possible conforming to the criteria above. This is not "rocket science"; it is quite do-able. But, note, I said entry-level. There is definitely a place in racing for the new advances in esc technology, but this high cost will ultimately discourage new users.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
A stock/spec/entry-level controller should feature these characteristics:

~ under $100.00, "street price"
~ on-board programming, only
~ no advanced timing or boost circuitry
~ stand-alone design (no PC input)
~ built-in, over-heating protection
~ service parts availability

The profile above is offered primarily to open a discussion for offering an affordable controller to attract new customers into the R/C hobby. This type of product could level the playing field for those who do not wish to spend a lot of money, or deal with the complexity, of the new esc/motor technology.

"Spec" racing has become the new modified, with few options for those who want to get involved; they have neither the money (nor time) to deal with the frustration, or equipment damage, that can accompany these newest controllers. Using a spec esc, participants could compete based on the talent and ability of the driver and not just on how much money he can spend.

This way speed control manufacturers could compete by offering customers the best (most affordable) "Spec" controller possible conforming to the criteria above. This is not "rocket science"; it is quite do-able. But, note, I said entry-level. There is definitely a place in racing for the new advances in esc technology, but this high cost will ultimately discourage new users.
Why is this a better option than spending more on a fully-adjustable ESC the first time, and then having it include some kind of non-timing/boost/whatever spec profile that's similar across brands? That way, when people are ready to move up, they don't need to buy a new ESC, they can just update the one they've got.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:50 AM   #10
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Where does it end? If cost are an issue then there should be cost controls for every component.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #11
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That is why everyone should just run MOD and and the best part of that is a controlled trigger finger does not cost any money, no need to upgrade and fully updatable with practice.

Get rid of 17.5 and 13.5 and for the sportsman class run brushed motor ie, silver can, black can, traxxas stinger, HPI saturn any cheap fixed endbell can that can be obtained for under $20.00. DONE.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:33 AM   #12
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I have had a RC since 1987 and money has always been an issue asn will always be. Spec classes have come and gone. They don't seem to work. Racers always get bored with restraint. So we just go on complaining about something, from batteries that are matched better,or motors that are wound better, to now timing and boost and the next best speedcontrol that came at this week and is obsolete by the end of the week. It will always be something. Of course that is just my opinion. BY the way, I stepped out for 2yrs and came back to way more technical, but more efficent products. I love this hobby and will role with what ever comes along.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Why is this a better option than spending more on a fully-adjustable ESC the first time, and then having it include some kind of non-timing/boost/whatever spec profile that's similar across brands? That way, when people are ready to move up, they don't need to buy a new ESC, they can just update the one they've got.
My suggestion is for entry-level (probably local racing) where teching escs to dis-allow any PC programmable timing or resident fixed timing is not feasible; there is no piece of equipment available currently to check for timing advance in escs. This suggestion is offered to allow this hobby to grow and keep costs down for new racers/customers.

R/C manufacturers cannot stay in business by stealing the same customers away from competitors (by offering fancier, more complex escs); we need new racers getting interested in the hobby. We need affordable products to attract budget-conscious folks who just want to have fun.

We will be soon be adding a new feature to our BL ESC Service Option Program. We will allow Novak customers the option of exchanging among all of our BL controllers. Therefore, a customer who wishes to compete initially in the EL events can (later) exchange his controller for a racing esc.

This should remove some of the racer's unwillingness to invest in a spec speed control. But, maybe he will realize that controlled, spec racing is more fun than getting involved in the "speed controller/PC upgrade of the week" frenzy------
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:52 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
.

R/C manufacturers cannot stay in business by stealing the same customers away from competitors (by offering fancier, more complex escs); we need new racers getting interested in the hobby. We need affordable products to attract budget-conscious folks who just want to have fun.
This is very true. Hey lets face it only about 15% of the people that by R/C actually race. The biggest part of the market isn't racing and is just a tiny part of the market. Backyard bashers and weekend warriors out with their buddies is a way larger part than racing will ever be.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #15
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