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Old 01-03-2010, 04:58 AM   #1
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Default 50C? Seriously?

Now that just about all of the major manufacturers have jumped on the 50C bandwagon, I have to ask how much is too much? Will we as Joe Spec Racer really reap the benefits of 50C+, or is there a point of diminishing returns where less is more? I hear some say that the higher the C rating the better no matter what, some say that a *lower* C rating actually lets the pack build heat which in turn gives more power, and I've seen pages upon pages of threads filled with complex electrical calculations and theories bantered and argued for both sides of the coin. Since I already know that the newest shiniest battery isn't going to keep me from knocking down the walls nor will it enhance my understanding of complex electrical calculations, is a high C rating really a performance enhancer in spec motor racing?

-rocky b
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:06 AM   #2
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Since I already know that the newest shiniest battery isn't going to keep me from knocking down the walls
-rocky b
I hear you there.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:59 AM   #3
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I have heard from some decent sources that the 40C packs are faster for spec racing. You need to race modified to gain any benefits from 50C packs. From my exp quality, capacity, then C rating is what gives a pack its performance in that order. That said I am sure some team drivers who would have won some big events with any decnt pack will win with the new 50C packs and then everyone will buy them anyway. Some of these people who honsetly believe lipos don't lose performance will replace their run down packs and have more power anyway and be impressed. enough people do this and they will become the next "best pack". Anyway I'm sure they will sell now matter how fast they are.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:12 AM   #4
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Do NOT buy these 50C batteries. When you combine these batteries with the new Speed controls with boost settings there way to dangerous. Here's a picture of our race track wall after a guys truck went so fast on the straightaway he couldn't stop it:no50C? Seriously?-hole-wall.jpgd:
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:56 AM   #5
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Default C rating

I refuse to believe any c-rating that high. If you could draw 250 amps it would melt everything including the car!
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:28 AM   #6
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I refuse to believe any c-rating that high. If you could draw 250 amps it would melt everything including the car!
The advantage or C-rating is not how much current it can dish out, but how little voltage drop there is under load. BTW back in the brushed days 7T brushed motors did draw crazy amounts of current like that which is why runtime was an issue. Brushless is noticeably more efficent.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Dragonfire View Post
The advantage or C-rating is not how much current it can dish out, but how little voltage drop there is under load. BTW back in the brushed days 7T brushed motors did draw crazy amounts of current like that which is why runtime was an issue. Brushless is noticeably more efficent.
LiPo has much lower internal resistance, so the gains in efficiency are probably more significant there than the switch to brushless.

I hear the lower C rating packs heat up a little bit when you're pulling juice out of them, which actually can allow them to hold voltage under load better than a higher C rating. I haven't put that theory to the test, however.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:00 AM   #8
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Questions??

I still encaged with these "good for stock or bad for stock"

2 examples:
If TP 5000 40C is better than TP5200 50C in stock race, i think all will agree.
But if IP5000 40C(old) compared IP5000 50C(new), think the new 1 should be better for spec race or in any kind of race, if the capacity are same, of course i will choose the new 1, isn't it?

Best regards
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:08 AM   #9
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LiPo has much lower internal resistance, so the gains in efficiency are probably more significant there than the switch to brushless.

I hear the lower C rating packs heat up a little bit when you're pulling juice out of them, which actually can allow them to hold voltage under load better than a higher C rating. I haven't put that theory to the test, however.
Actually when we changed from brushed to brushless we went from 8t brushed to 5.5t (bonded not sintered) and had the same power with a fraction more speed and no runtime issues even with older batteries, all over night. For me lipo was nice but brushless was much bigger and better change.

I too have heard that lower C rating keeps packs warmer for better performance during a run. It was definatley the case with nimh that a warm pack was faster and lipo has proven to be the same. So what happens when you have a pack that finds 10.5 a picnic? I imagine the lack of heat "might" be a problem. I thinks its going to come down to weather or not the top drivers in spec can win with these new packs. If they can then people will buy them weather they are better or not.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:57 AM   #10
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I just bought Team Orion 5400mah 45C, price : around $110 usd each.

I was browsing internet last night and I found IP battery just released the newest IP 5000 50C , price : around $75 usd each.

I am curious now..... am I being screwed here ? .... I mean there is BIG possibility the lipo cells inside Team Orion are also IP 5000 50C ??

2ndly. Is it possible Team Orion get the best cells first ? ..., and let the second grade cells sell under IP brand ? Or .... dammit ..... Team Orion bought the second grade because they are cheaper ?
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
LiPo has much lower internal resistance, so the gains in efficiency are probably more significant there than the switch to brushless.

I hear the lower C rating packs heat up a little bit when you're pulling juice out of them, which actually can allow them to hold voltage under load better than a higher C rating. I haven't put that theory to the test, however.
On my best runs I temp the Lipo and it comes off at around 100 degrees, less and the car feels slow. I started to temp packs as another way to make sure that the car is geared right and the SC is working right.
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:26 PM   #12
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There will always be a use for the higher capacity and higher C rated packs at the very highest level of racing IMO. I think we all need to be honest with ourselves regarding how consistent we are on the track. For most club level racers money would be better spent on track time and not the pack of the week. Ijust asked a question on pack selection on the boards and received some very good and helpful input. I'm just geeting back to racing after a long break. As it was back then, I really need to focus on my driving line and ways to trim the course more than adding horsepower to shave time. There may come a point where I have that "perfect" line down and can now add horsepower to shave more time, but at least for me that is a long way off.

To the orignal poster, I'd say don't worry about throwing yet more money after another pack. Work on set-up and driving first. This is not to say that your driving and set up is not good, just that these are a couple of thigs that I have found to really help my times get lower without a tremendous investment in cash.

HTH
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:38 PM   #13
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50c Thunder powers will be coming in late this week. I needed new pack's any way, so I don't care. i'm giving one to Blackedoutrevo for testing also, so we will figure out how much "better" they really are.

Now, with blackedout venturing into mod, the benefits a good pack made in 13.5 (stock classes in general) may not be as noticeable in the fast guy class. For a driver like myself who is still trying to get used to On-Road, it may just be that I plow the wall that much harder in 13.5.

We will give them a whirl
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:46 PM   #14
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No offence but what is it with these "drive better instead of spending money" posts these days? Everyone already knows that driving better will be faster but everyone also has their limits in both abilities and practice time. Why is it such a problem that there are people (and that is most of us) who are willing to do research so they can quite literally "buy" more speed? F1 teams spend millions of dollars every year in the search of speed, is it really so silly for someone to upgrade their gear and gain an instant improvement in their overall potential next time they hit the track?
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:37 PM   #15
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QUOTE=flatspunout;6798525]Now that just about all of the major manufacturers have jumped on the 50C bandwagon, I have to ask how much is too much? Will we as Joe Spec Racer really reap the benefits of 50C+, or is there a point of diminishing returns where less is more? I hear some say that the higher the C rating the better no matter what, some say that a *lower* C rating actually lets the pack build heat which in turn gives more power, and I've seen pages upon pages of threads filled with complex electrical calculations and theories bantered and argued for both sides of the coin. Since I already know that the newest shiniest battery isn't going to keep me from knocking down the walls nor will it enhance my understanding of complex electrical calculations, is a high C rating really a performance enhancer in spec motor racing?

-rocky b[/QUOTE]

http://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-el...0c-4900-a.html[
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