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Old 01-03-2010, 07:51 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
For me at least, I wouldn't mind the increase in mah for the battery packs and also upping the weight doesn't bother me. And if it was decided that the classic class would just limit the timing on the ESC and no boost, I would be fine with that too.

I just want to not shut out other manufacturers from the equation. I think if you get more manufacturer buy in, you will grow the class.
I couldn't agree more!!

+1
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:01 AM   #47
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One idea would be to come up with a list of proposed changes. After a few weeks or month, we could start polling on the issues.

So far the list may include:

Motor Change to 25.5 vs 21.5

Should Motors be Manufacture specific, or open?

Open or regulated ESC rules to apply at local and National events.

Weight requirements.

Driver figures (sigh)

Allowing RTR cars into the local series races that may not have the same brand motor or body. Any body and motor swaps must be done within the series guide lines.

Battery limits?



Any other ideas to Poll on?
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:04 AM   #48
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It would be nice to keep the class under the VTA name. Meaning these suggested rules would be the new Standard for the Current VTA without being trunced be 'VTA (mega post) Ceaser'.

IMO
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:12 AM   #49
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if we all just run the old rules @ local tracks "THE EMPIRE" will see majority rules in RC ...


+1 on the classic rules ....u cant please everyone
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:14 AM   #50
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for me at least, I personally don't see a problem if USVTA was to do two versions of rules. One which does all the limiting they want to do with the class, and another that is the current rule set with some tweaking (like the timing issue and motor selection ).

To me, you then have a deep limited spec option for those who want it, and then you have one that is open to other manufactures. But again, just my thoughts on it.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:37 AM   #51
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Personally I like the existing rules as well.

Here's the problems:

Most of the guys that have been racing for a while, are more likely to lean towards slowing things down.
When it comes time to, they also become the proverbial squeeky wheel.

Most of the racers out there in my opinion, possibly B mainers back, are perfectly content. Most don't see the need to change anything and aren't on top of the latest gossip.

So while I'm not adverse to change, a majority must dictate it. Even a poll on here doesn't represent the true population. It would give an indication though.

The best way, is polling at club levels at the tracks. If it's close than run two classes. If a majority goes either way, then the rest should give in, in the best interest of good racing and the VTA.
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gacjr0 View Post
(and a 2% gearing change)




Memory problems much?You show that at low FDR one tooth makes a very small gear ratio change then write not really?

Keep in mind that at what used to be more normal FDRs like:
84/21*2.17=8.68
84/22*2.17=8.285
yields 0.365 delta ratio (a 4% change)

I do concede that when comparing larger vs smaller spurs and using appropriate pinions to arrive at same ratios, the change in ratio from one pinion to another will be larger, but at the low FDRs we're looking at, the tendency towards small delta is dominant, and I accept your apology.
You are right that the difference is small. Scottrik and SpdJunky are correct about the Math. If your entering a discussion about the proper way to select the FDR for a class, you really ought to base it on the technical details. If you work a Rollout on the XXX-S as below, you have to keep the pinion change to the same size and have the variable be the size of the spur, no other way around the discussion.

With a 54mm tire , 32 pinion and 128 spur through the 1.83 of the driveline, you get a rollout of 23.18mm. Change the pinion up to a 33 and the rollout goes to 23.9mm = a change of .72mm in rollout.

With a 54mm tire, 32 pinion and 108 spur through the 1.83 driveline, you get a rollout of 27.47mm. Change the pinion up to a 33 and the rollout goes to a 28.33mm = a change of .86mm in rollout.

If the discussion is going to be productive, you simply have to have the technical details right, otherwise, what's the point?
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Old 01-03-2010, 02:05 PM   #53
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This should clear things up a bit better:


Lenman setup:

Spur Pinion Tire Tire In Tranny Rollout FDR
108 47 54 2.126 1.830 0.630 4.205
108 48 54 2.126 1.830 0.617 4.118
Diff = 0.013 0.088

Optional with 25.5
118 56 54 2.126 1.830 0.578 3.856
118 57 54 2.126 1.830 0.568 3.788
Diff = 0.010 0.068

108 51 54 2.126 1.830 0.581 3.875
108 52 54 2.126 1.830 0.569 3.801
Diff = 0.011 0.075

Running a smaller spur and changing the pinion 1 tooth has a greater diff in the ratio's.

The car is reaching its max with those sizes of gears if I recall.

This is one of those unique scenarios since gearing is extremely limited for the car. Or he can sell it and buy a newer car to compete for $200 - $600. LOL
Keep in mind it's the spirit of racing and door to door racing

TC3 guys have to do similar work trying to run 25.5. This is really keeping the class cheap for new people and close competition? Are people serious? There seems to be a constant contradiction.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:26 PM   #54
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Well, it seems that Tekin is completely shut out of the current VTA rules.

It would appear that even some of the newer cars will have a hard time reaching mid 3's FDR with the 25.5 motors.

So I would like to propose this:

Keeping the 21.5 rules with no limit on Manufacture?
'Open ESC' with the program features on the Tekin to check for Turbo Boost.
Current weight specs used by the VTA
The driver inside the body is optional and only for 'cool' points.
5400 mah limit on battery size for Lipos.
No limit on MAH for NImh


Any Manufacture offering an RTR with a compatible car will be allowed to race. However the tires must be changed to HPI race series specs.
The RTR body can be used but must be changed with a race series body as soon as possible and Local track would govern the use of this.


Opinions? Can people check to see if this would be feasible on the club level?
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:59 PM   #55
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what benefit are people seeing by keeping a mah limit on the lipos?

For the ESC open thing, will turbo boost be allowed or not allowed? Also, same question on timing limitations? Should the suggested limitation now be a rule?
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:09 PM   #56
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"classic" sure seems complicated...
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:16 PM   #57
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In my mind the boost would still be illegal because the sprit of the VTA rule is still in effect right ?
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:43 PM   #58
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Our track has no VTA and I dont see it happening. Too many rule changes. Get some rule and stick to it for a couple years. No one wants to buy a bunch of new stuff all the time for a "cheap" class.

Just my .02
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:17 PM   #59
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I've been basically scanning quickly through the posts but I don't think anyone has specifically answered the XXX-S gearing question of just how low of a FDR can you run. At the first TA nats I ran a XXX-S with the 108 spur and a 56 pinion... 3.52 I believe. I think a 57 might have fit but 56 was as big as I had.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:20 PM   #60
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I would like to type my opinion...

I think that this classic is a bad idea, even if I agree with alot of it...the problem is that we need to stick together...rather we agree or not...we need to back up Rob and the USVTA...it is what all got us to the dance to start with....you dont always agree with the prez, but you always support the troops....

if you want to change something I would just leave the current rules for your local club...and let that be the end of it...or maybe modify it some..exp..

current USVTA rules...except
no adv esc...incl SPX,RS,RS PRO,KO,ect..
any pre-1975 American Muscle Car
driver optional

and let that get you a very good starting point to an already great class...

dont change to much cause you will be right back to square one...and if thats the case, you need to start a totally new class....and since RCGT is taken, very slow TC sounds wrong..lol...just work with the current rules and see what happens...

I would like this class to start getting some respect in the r/c world..and if we dont start sticking together we will remain the bottom class of r/c racing, and not to mention getting pushed off major national races like Snowbirds and such...
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