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Front inboard toe

Front inboard toe

Old 03-10-2004, 04:48 PM
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Post Front inboard toe

What does putting inboard toe in the front end do to a car? Or sweaping the arms back I guess....Like the Losi? More steering? Less steering? Stability?

Thanks in advance

EA
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Old 03-10-2004, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Front inboard toe

Originally posted by EAMotorsports
What does putting inboard toe in the front end do to a car? Or sweaping the arms back I guess....Like the Losi? More steering? Less steering? Stability?

Thanks in advance

EA
I think front toe-in give you more stability and a bit more on-power steering exiting corners.
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Old 03-10-2004, 05:43 PM
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I messed that post up...I meant front inboard toe out. The arms are swept back. Trying to figure out what that does.

Sorry for the mispost but thanks for the response.

EA
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Old 03-10-2004, 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by EAMotorsports
I messed that post up...I meant front inboard toe out. The arms are swept back. Trying to figure out what that does.

Sorry for the mispost but thanks for the response.

EA
Well, it does the opposite. You car will wander a bit on the straight and be really sensitive to steering. However, it does help turn-in but pushes coming out.
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Old 03-10-2004, 07:21 PM
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According to the pro 4 manual:
More toe out: more aggresive cornering

Less toe out: more front stability
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Old 03-10-2004, 07:52 PM
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I think he meant the way the front inner hinge pins are angled when mounted. The front inner hinge pins of the xxxs and the pro4 are not parallel.
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Old 03-10-2004, 09:12 PM
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Yes Kenneth!! That is what I am looking for. As far as I know those are about the only two cars that are that way...And the new schumacher is that way also but it doesnt tell you in the manual what it does...I'll have to call and find out tomorrow....Just trying to figure it out tonight while I was rebuilding my car for this weekend!!

Thanks

EA
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Old 03-10-2004, 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by EAMotorsports
Yes Kenneth!! That is what I am looking for. As far as I know those are about the only two cars that are that way...And the new schumacher is that way also but it doesnt tell you in the manual what it does...I'll have to call and find out tomorrow....Just trying to figure it out tonight while I was rebuilding my car for this weekend!!

Thanks

EA
Doesn't that give you a positive castor?
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Old 03-10-2004, 11:32 PM
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Wouldnt that massively screw with your bumpsteer and ackerman with the arms moving forward and backwards as they go through thier swing? I just dont see how this could be a good thing.
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Old 03-11-2004, 12:10 AM
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Wouldn't it just make the front suspension more responcive. Basically your adding toe out but through the arm's agle in relation to the chassis. Toe-in stability, Toe-out responciveness. A car with inboard toe out, yet zero front toe would be more responcive in the twisty's but would be stable on the straight. I doubt you'd loose steering coming out of the corner because your front toe is actually set at 0 even though your suspension is set to have toe-out. Is this assumpsion correct?
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Old 03-11-2004, 12:36 AM
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I have to agree with SpeediePHATT. If the arms move forward or backward during their normal travel (up/down) then it would affect the cars ackerman and toe in/out setting. Maybe that is what it is for??? I can't see it being useful but the cars it is used on may have their steering racks aligned in the same fashion (like an offroad car).
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Old 03-11-2004, 01:45 AM
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If I remember correct, then Schumacher with the first Mission stated that inboard toe in was suited for low grip tracks.
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Old 03-11-2004, 05:59 AM
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interesting post that has yeilded very few detailed answers. unfortunately, i don't have much to contribute. just to point out that the suspension arms are moving forward and backward if there is any pro/ant dive built in. most cars start with a kickup, so the rearward movement can't be all that problematic on the bump steer and ackermann alignments.

i am curious about an explanation how certain characteristics are introduced by this inboard change. the dive/squat angles have a very simple explanation of how they do what they do. the inboard stuff is not so clear to me.

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Old 03-11-2004, 06:00 AM
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robk, does that mean that you have your new ride now?

who's coming to cleveland?
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Old 03-11-2004, 08:50 AM
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Yo EA,

Here's some info I've read on that. When the arms AND DRIVESHAFTS are swept one direction or another it effects how much the car lifts when throttle or brake is applied. The only way I can picture this (and even begin to explain it) is if you imagine the car balanced on top of something, so that the wheels are not touching the ground. Sort of like this

-> T

the car would be the horizontal line on the "T" and the object would be the vertical line. Now if you "goosed" the throttle the car would pitch forward or back due to the rotation of the drive shafts (pretend there are no wheels on the car). When you angle the drive shafts it changes how much pitch you get from drive shaft rotation. If you notice a lot of the newer Losi setups have the arms moved well forward (they do this by cutting the block that mounts the front arm, the rear arms are also moved forward) this is to take some of the "swoop" out of the front end and make the car less sensitive to throttle input.

Most of that info is not mine (except the terrible description), it comes from an old thread that John Stranahan did about the Losi on TechTalk, I used to read it when I was running one.

Don't know if any of that helped or not

Last edited by Ozwald Bates; 03-11-2004 at 12:33 PM.
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