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Old 01-07-2010, 06:43 AM   #46
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We are finding that with the Nemesis motors you are going to want to run about around 12 degrees of timing on the motor and about 6-8 teeth smaller on the pinion due to the strength of the rotor in the motors. Ive ran it that way and you dont get the fading. Hope that helps.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:43 AM   #47
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thats a big change 6to 8 teeth
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:29 AM   #48
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We are finding that with the Nemesis motors you are going to want to run about around 12 degrees of timing on the motor and about 6-8 teeth smaller on the pinion due to the strength of the rotor in the motors. Ive ran it that way and you dont get the fading. Hope that helps.
What do you mean by "due to the strength of the rotor"? I have measured both and the nemisis is slightly stronger, no where near a real strong rotor like those in a SP spec motor or mod motors. By the rotor you should actually need more gearing but the opposite seems to be the case which suggests there is another major change.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:55 AM   #49
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We are finding that with the Nemesis motors you are going to want to run about around 12 degrees of timing on the motor and about 6-8 teeth smaller on the pinion due to the strength of the rotor in the motors. Ive ran it that way and you dont get the fading. Hope that helps.
Sounds good. I will try this, thanks!!
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:03 AM   #50
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ok, ran the nemisis for the first time tonight and it seems to fade rather quickly.... when comparing it to the duo 2 .

Im currently running 102 spur and 41 pinion w/ 1.9 internal ratio. Has anyone experienced this and does anyone.. maybe even a trinity rep have any thoughts or advice on this.

I have run timming on 15, 20 and even 30 and it just seems to fade. Im running 1/10 scale with Ko speed control
Just curious, what was the motor temp when you experienced the "fade"?

I have seen this as well but only when the temperature exceeds 165, while running 3.9 FDR, spx profile 8 and theoritical 0 motor timing.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:20 AM   #51
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We are finding that with the Nemesis motors you are going to want to run about around 12 degrees of timing on the motor and about 6-8 teeth smaller on the pinion due to the strength of the rotor in the motors. Ive ran it that way and you dont get the fading. Hope that helps.
So what's a good FDR range that your suggesting? 6-8 teeth is a huge jump. Thanks
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:22 AM   #52
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Just curious, what was the motor temp when you experienced the "fade"?

I have seen this as well but only when the temperature exceeds 165, while running 3.9 FDR, spx profile 8 and theoritical 0 motor timing.
Mine was fading bad at 145 in 1/12, 3.7v. So bad I pulled it off the track.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:29 PM   #53
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Same here bad fade at 150 degrees
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:51 PM   #54
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My Nemesis is a turd and Epic/Trinity has not bothered to answer my emails.

What a POS.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:18 PM   #55
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What do you mean by "due to the strength of the rotor"? I have measured both and the nemisis is slightly stronger, no where near a real strong rotor like those in a SP spec motor or mod motors. By the rotor you should actually need more gearing but the opposite seems to be the case which suggests there is another major change.
What meter are you using to test the rotors? Remember these (EPIC meter) are simply reference numbers where higher is higher, but what does that number actually represent? It could be that a number such as "one" is hugh if compared to a actual reluctance reading. Never the less the next thing to look at if your comparing motor brands is air gap, which is going to make similar rotors run different in different stator setups. I really haven't seen a fixed inner diameter of the stators, and don't know if there is a rule about that, but it could really change things in the motor. Just some stuff to think about.

As far as the motors, we also see the big gear change required to make this motor work. It could be that you've bagged the rotor already and now you see the fade everytime you start to get a little warm. I had one motor that acted like that as well, and when cool the rotor had pretty good readings, so out of curiousity I ran it till it got to temp, and then a little more, took it out of the car and checked it hot and the rotor was about 20 points off of the cold reading. Put a new rotor and it was back up to speed with no fade.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:08 PM   #56
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What meter are you using to test the rotors? Remember these (EPIC meter) are simply reference numbers where higher is higher, but what does that number actually represent? It could be that a number such as "one" is hugh if compared to a actual reluctance reading. Never the less the next thing to look at if your comparing motor brands is air gap, which is going to make similar rotors run different in different stator setups. I really haven't seen a fixed inner diameter of the stators, and don't know if there is a rule about that, but it could really change things in the motor. Just some stuff to think about.

As far as the motors, we also see the big gear change required to make this motor work. It could be that you've bagged the rotor already and now you see the fade everytime you start to get a little warm. I had one motor that acted like that as well, and when cool the rotor had pretty good readings, so out of curiousity I ran it till it got to temp, and then a little more, took it out of the car and checked it hot and the rotor was about 20 points off of the cold reading. Put a new rotor and it was back up to speed with no fade.
What do you mean by bagged the rotor? I know I never got the motor over 145-147 so I don't think it was damaged. I've been running a different motor every few months for years and never seen anything fade like this. What can I do to fix this?
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:41 PM   #57
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What do you mean by bagged the rotor? I know I never got the motor over 145-147 so I don't think it was damaged. I've been running a different motor every few months for years and never seen anything fade like this. What can I do to fix this?
That was in reference to overheated, but if you figure you haven't done that.......... do you have a rotor tester? Thats the only way to start trouble shooting, if you could post what your getting of a EPIC gause meter we could compare numbers for a start. I do know that I had a motor of another brand that I never got hot, but seemed down on power as well, when I finally compared its rotor to another one of the same make, there was a big difference. Now some could say that the weaker rotor should be a rpm motor and you have to gear accordingly, but, I think small differences maybe, but you can't give up a hugh difference and expect to make it up on gearing. Now I'm not a company rep so how to get it fixed by EPIC I'm not sure, perhaps contacting the tech rep via their site would be a start.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:29 PM   #58
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hey guys i've been doing lot of testing with all different timing and gearing and in general you will find that by running to much timing in the 17.5 and 21.5 classes the motors do not have enough power and torque to push the load at top end. You really need to get gearing right with minimal timing!! if you are running under a 40-42mm rollout then you have to much timing in total!! i am finding that going below 44mm rollout recquires to much timing for speed and causes stress under full throttle which causes excess heat!! now the nemisis i beleive is revier even with better magnet strength so if your speedy is one with excess timing run zero. and if you are running something like a gtb then maybe a couple of degrees prob 10 max!! lower spec motors can't pull big rpm without being very inefficient!! hope this helps all you guys!!
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:45 PM   #59
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hey guys i've been doing lot of testing with all different timing and gearing and in general you will find that by running to much timing in the 17.5 and 21.5 classes the motors do not have enough power and torque to push the load at top end. You really need to get gearing right with minimal timing!! if you are running under a 40-42mm rollout then you have to much timing in total!! i am finding that going below 44mm rollout recquires to much timing for speed and causes stress under full throttle which causes excess heat!! now the nemisis i beleive is revier even with better magnet strength so if your speedy is one with excess timing run zero. and if you are running something like a gtb then maybe a couple of degrees prob 10 max!! lower spec motors can't pull big rpm without being very inefficient!! hope this helps all you guys!!
Very true, also remember that just because a motor is marked with a "0" on the endbell, this may not necessarily mean that its a true physical "0" in relation to the stator. These motors are not like the brushed motors and I think this really mixes some people up so they are still thinking that way and are leary about turning it past that mark. Now with the new SC and the software capabilities of timing changes, it might require you to run a different pinion with a timing advance on the SC and retarding the timing to get the torque back. Its getting harder to hit that ultimate speed and torque setup.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:37 AM   #60
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Mine was fading bad at 145 in 1/12, 3.7v. So bad I pulled it off the track.
Im running 1/10 and Melvin and Wishbone were right... I had to reduce timing in my speedo from 6 to 4 or 5... and drop 3 or 4 teeth. i had to go from a 4.7 to a 5.XX .

The Duo 2 loved all the timing and gearing you could give it.... The nemesis doesnt like to much speedo timing and doesnt like alot of gearinng.... your going to have to drop some teeth.


Thanks Melvin and Johnny
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