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Old 12-16-2009, 04:56 PM   #196
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i am new to all this racing and at my local track we are going to be running 540, 17.5 or 13.5 and f1 cars. So for someone like me i am going to be racing 540, because it is cheap, not to fast and if you blow a motor its not a big deal.

The point i am getting at is if you at club level offer them a cheap entry for of racing that is fun and competitive then most people are will to come back. so what if they start with an esc that does not have turbo, there are ways around it. Even in a 1:1 car a turbo is not alway an advantage, as depending on how it is tuned for it to get its maximum power it has to be on boost. with some of race tracks you are not always going to be on boost and when you finally get boost you maybe at the next corner. so it is like a double edged sword and i would think it works the same in rc cars.

So in conclusion a turbo esc has advantages and disadvantages it comes down to the person setting up the car and their drive style. There is always going to be new technology, we just have to adapt to it or we will loose the manufacture that we have and the sport will die.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:08 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
I think that onroad does need three classes. Without arguing what motor and battery they should be here they are:

1) Stock. This is the slow class for new racers and the hobby guys that just want to race and have a good time.

2) Superstock. This is the "spec" class that we all know of as stock now. It should be where all of the competitive racers should be.

3) Mod. Pretty much exactly what it is today.

Rubber tire vs. foam needs to be decided by the racers and have it done with. Same thing with the batteries and motors.
Fred_B ..... this is the intent of the sportsman rules that ROAR is implementing

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Problem is nobody wants to run open, especially on the local level. And I don't blame them, it is harder on parts.

One thing you could do is eliminate 13.5. The speed difference between 17.5 and 10.5 is great enough that the racers would be better separated. Depends on how strong a following 13.5 has.
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You know the more I think of it, especially in large races, 13.5 has become a "spec" mod class. I was at the IIC and Andy Moore and Barry Baker were running 13.5. And I see Barry just won the KO race in 13.5. It seems as if the top level mod racers like running a slower class. So maybe having 10.5 replace 13.5 would be a good idea...? I don't know...something to think about.
Problem with this is you already have guys running mod at national level races with 10.5. Now there's no gap in mod and 10.5

540 cans on the current crop of lipo ain't going to work either. I've sceen it run and it's every bit as fast as 27t was 2 years ago.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:40 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Just a bunch of Sedans racers fighting how to go slower and still beat everyone in the beginner class....

Lame .....


problem is not
the motors , ESC or even Roar...


Its the racers and their lack of ability to advance and move up ...
......i'm reading this thru my nitro racing eyes..........have ONE class like nitro......you either step up and make the A or run your F main and get spanked.........no matter what rules are set forth by ROAR..there will always be a guy who gets his ASS handed to him.....so he whines that it's the equipment..............i have decent equipment in my nitro cars.........and guess what,.. CYRUL and RICK DAVIS and the like at my track hand me MY ass every weekend..............BUT....i still show up to better my car/driving.........and it's still fun...................i would rather finish dead last in the A than first in an F main............not EVERYONE can be a winner......give EVERYONE their own main..then everyone can win.........am i reading these posts correctly??..............350.00 bux for a speedo????.................damn.........nitro is now officially cheaper.........
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:24 PM   #199
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......i'm reading this thru my nitro racing eyes..........have ONE class like nitro......you either step up and make the A or run your F main and get spanked.........no matter what rules are set forth by ROAR..there will always be a guy who gets his ASS handed to him.....so he whines that it's the equipment..............i have decent equipment in my nitro cars.........and guess what,.. CYRUL and RICK DAVIS and the like at my track hand me MY ass every weekend..............BUT....i still show up to better my car/driving.........and it's still fun...................i would rather finish dead last in the A than first in an F main............not EVERYONE can be a winner......give EVERYONE their own main..then everyone can win.........am i reading these posts correctly??..............350.00 bux for a speedo????.................damn.........nitro is now officially cheaper.........
It's not nitro and what works for nitro doesn't work for electric.
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:19 AM   #200
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350.00 bux for a speedo????.................damn.........nitro is now officially cheaper.........
Yeah, $350 SPEEDO + $80 motor= $430 or a $500 .21 and $80 throttle servo........yep nitro's cheaper
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:22 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by scootr117 View Post
Only when it was set too high......It was adjusted and it was better.
WRONG!!! I still hate it
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:18 AM   #202
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I've been thinking about this, and Taylor just pointed it out...

Which is the bigger problem, the fact that this technology is available?

Or, the fact that this technology is very expensive?

Could it be that electric RC racing has finally hit the price ceiling?
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:11 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
I've been thinking about this, and Taylor just pointed it out...

Which is the bigger problem, the fact that this technology is available?

Or, the fact that this technology is very expensive?

Could it be that electric RC racing has finally hit the price ceiling?
In short, both.

But if I had to choose one, it would be the price, because price dictates who can and who can't get in reach of something. (Anyone can set it up when they have the right settings, news/setups travels fast).

At the same time though, all manufacturers are doing is providing us with something faster (and newer) so they are merely feeding our desire within the rulebook.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:33 AM   #204
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Yeah, $350 SPEEDO + $80 motor= $430 or a $500 .21 and $80 throttle servo........yep nitro's cheaper
You're leaving some things out like batteries, but personally I just flat out like electric better. I don't do one because it is cheaper than the other.

I've been following the thread and thinking how I really "stand" on this. Considering that the current trend is to max out the timing on the motor, push it to death with a speed control, and gear to where the motor won't overheat and die during the race, it seems like specifying timing on the motor won't work. So that is solved. It's already specified. Just max out the timing and control heat with gearing. Now we are back to the same exact scenario we had with 27T brushed. I don't remember "gently gearing" 27T brushed motors.

Now on to the ESC problem. 20 years ago both Tekin and Novak sold high end $300 ESCs. 20 years ago a can of soda from a vending machine was $0.50. Now it's more like $0.85 if you're lucky. Using that as an example, if ESCs followed the same inflationary trend as a can of soda, a high end ESC should cost $595. Costs have actually decreased! It has always been expensive to race.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:59 AM   #205
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Er, maybe it's me, but what Novak or Tekin speed controls were $300? The most expensive Novak speed control I remember, as far as brushed is concerned, was the GTX with a street price of $180. And I thought that was expensive.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:13 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by liquiddog View Post
Now on to the ESC problem. 20 years ago both Tekin and Novak sold high end $300 ESCs.


Um, no.

I can remember back 6-7 years the high end ESC were around $150...
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:21 AM   #207
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Look up the Tekin TSC 420-g2. Although I definitely remember seeing Novak ESCs in my LHS case that were in the over $200 range.

I can't speak for 6-7 years ago (but $150, really?), I am speaking of 20 years ago. You could easily drop 3 bills on an esc at your LHS and not get back much change.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:39 AM   #208
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Look up the Tekin TSC 420-g2. Although I definitely remember seeing Novak ESCs in my LHS case that were in the over $200 range.

I can't speak for 6-7 years ago (but $150, really?), I am speaking of 20 years ago. You could easily drop 3 bills on an esc at your LHS and not get back much change.
I just looked up a Novak GT7 which was listed as $249 FULL retail. I bought mine for about $150. So unless your shop was selling for way more than full retail, I'm not sure why you paid that much. I'm 37 years old and I know ESC's were never $300 when I was in high school
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:46 AM   #209
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I just looked up a Novak GT7 which was listed as $249 FULL retail. I bought mine for about $150. So unless your shop was selling for way more than full retail, I'm not sure why you paid that much. I'm 37 years old and I know ESC's were never $300 when I was in high school
See, $249. The comparible Tekin was always a little higher so quickly we approach the $300 range. My LHS sold stuff at retail. They went out of business too. The price difference between retail and mail order back then was massive. I remember paying $70 for a Tekin from a LHS and it was the lowest end one they sold. I believe it was rated to handle 6 cells and a 27T motor, and it was the cheapest one of those.

Edit: c'mon let's not start posting the one day something was on sale or the cheapest mail order prices... If you can get something for $150 I win because I could have found somewhere with the same thing for $140. So there.

If you went into a retail store 20 years ago on a normal day and wanted the top end race speed control you better have brought more than two bills with you. And it doesn't count if you were dating the owners daughter and got an inside line on the cheapest price ever. (geez guys)

Last edited by liquiddog; 12-17-2009 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:56 AM   #210
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Yeah, $350 SPEEDO + $80 motor= $430 or a $500 .21 and $80 throttle servo........yep nitro's cheaper
You forgot the $85 - $120 pipe, and $30/gal nitro forever.
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