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Old 12-06-2009, 11:23 AM   #46
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I want one - but price is a big deal. Where can I get an affordable 2wd touring car?

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Old 12-06-2009, 11:26 AM   #47
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Or, you know, something cheap to actually attract racers......
enlighten me. What are your design plans for a RWD TC?
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:55 AM   #48
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Yet another class will save nothing!

Let's focus on making the classes we already have better.

Touring needs at most three classes.

Modified - which only makes sense outdoors and for the very best drivers.

Pro-stock (or whatever you choose to call it) - a "fast" stock class, that appeals to experienced racers.

Stock - a "slow" stock class for beginners, that should be inexpensive to start out in.

Soon enough we will work out what brushless motors are right for each class. It seems to me that pro-stock should be either 10.5 or 13.5, and stock should be either 17.5 or 21.5. And that should be enough.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:01 PM   #49
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Those last two replies still do not tell me where I can get an affordable rear wheel drive 1/10 scale touring car????


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Old 12-06-2009, 12:07 PM   #50
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Those last two replies still do not tell me where I can get an affordable rear wheel drive 1/10 scale touring car????


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No one makes one. The closest you will get to it is a WGT car or make your current TC RWD.

In all there is too much power in these cars that 4wd has become a necessity. It's like having a 3000hp engine in a F1 car and can accelerate from 0-100mph in 1sec.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:09 PM   #51
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Those last two replies still do not tell me where I can get an affordable rear wheel drive 1/10 scale touring car????


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Well, That's mostly because no one makes a RWD touring car. Sure, Tamiya makes RWD mini, the M04, however I doubt that's what you were looking for.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:09 PM   #52
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Those last two replies still do not tell me where I can get an affordable rear wheel drive 1/10 scale touring car????


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I don't believe you can, since as far as I know nobody makes one.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:09 PM   #53
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The closest you will get to it is a WGT car or make your current TC RWD.


Feel like an idiot asking - What's WGT?

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Old 12-06-2009, 12:14 PM   #54
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Feel like an idiot asking - What's WGT?

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It's 1/10th derivative of the 1/12th pan cars. Not quite a TC, but it is a 1/10th RWD car.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:23 PM   #55
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Positive thinking is good...but you also need to be a realist.

Well I definately broke a lot more with my XX4 than I did with my B4. But the graphite arms on that could be brittle and I broke a few. Yes in general 4wd is more fragile than 2wd...but a lot depends on the car's construction. 1/8th cars are very durable and they are 4wd both on and off-road. The TCs that I have owned except for the TC3 were all incredibly durable.

If it is so hard to win you should be finding it a challenge to drive. What I find a challenge is taking a good line and consistently following it. I'm not talking about the setup being a challenge. If I'm not winning I'm still being challenged. I haven't raced TC on the carpet at all, rubber or foam. I've only raced it locally on asphalt. Actually I'm not even much of a fan of TC. I'm a pan car guy but race TC as well to get more track time in.

Ok you tried 2wd good. I didn't see you mention it earlier that you had. Now you'll have to find enough other people to do it on a regular basis to convince a manufacturer there is a market.

Now there was no call for a personal attack. You have no idea what I find challenging and if that even means I'm a good or bad driver. I haven't attacked you in any way. Besides that argument is invalid anyway. A bad driver will get less benefit out of a performance body.

Local races are a completely different animal than national races. You don't have to pay for air fare and a week's worth of hotel room at a local race so the economy effects them differently.

I think it's great the Slash class is doing so well don't get me wrong. I've also been around this hobby long enough to see many such classes burn brightly for a short time and die quickly. I've also been a race director for much of those years and for one of the longest running F1 series in the nation if not the longest (over 13 years).

Now 1 cell is an interesting idea. That would bring the power down low enough where the cars would be easier to drive and the speeds down where the body style wouldn't matter. Plus the batteries are less expensive and you don't have to worry about balancing them. Someone mentioned in another thread about trying 1 cell with 4wd. I'm not sure how well that would work in 4wd with all that parasitic drag but in a 2wd suspension car that won't be near the problem. In fact I think that might be a really good platform for a f1 car.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:55 PM   #56
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I'm going to go out on a limb here since I slept on this idea last night...

I think that for a RWD touring car to actually work, it's going to need a few things. Taking cues from other 2wd cars, like pan cars and F1, wider rear tires would be a necessity. I think that one of the few companies willing to invest in making a new set of wheels and tires would be HPI, seeing as they make 35mm wide drift wheels and tires already.

Making it wider, bumping it up to 200mm wide might not be a bad idea. That would make the current crop of 200mm bodies work right from the get go.

A centralized motor, something akin to HPI's Sprint or Losi's JRX-S would be needed. Battery could be run in either configuration from those cars too.

Last bit, as a RWD touring car, it should use standard TC electronics, and not pan car 1s lipos and such, should have full independent suspension, etc. It should be a class that you can use all of your electronics from a 4WD TC, drop 'em in, and go. If keeping them controllable is a concern, stick with stock motors, silver can, 21.5 brushless or whatever ends up suiting the car.

I don't believe electric RWD touring cars have been given a serious thought in the past. Associated's RC10DS was based off of their off-road platform way back then, hanging the motor off the back like they still do today. The Traxxas Street Sport I believe had the same configuration.

I don't think this would be a class that would really take off big time, but it could be another fun class to run alongside 4WD TC for something different, just like a lot of the guys at my track run mini cooper as a second class.

Just my thoughts to add to the discussion...
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:11 PM   #57
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Sosidge is also following a great line of thought in focusing on the classes that already exist.

However, with the current crop of ESCs and their advance timing/boost profiles, current motor winds defining a class are pretty much a joke.

VTA guys are finding that 21.5 motors with boost are rivaling the times of 17.5 motors without. 17.5 now equals 13.5, etc, etc. Oval is seeing a huge issue where the 13.5 COT class was a great "slow" class for newbies. However the boost ESCs are adding LAPS to their times. Not seconds, but LAPS.

Lipo, brushless and boost ESCs are driving speeds into the stratosphere. It's up to the hobby to figure out the best way to reign this stuff back in and refresh/renew/create interest in RC.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:48 PM   #58
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Back in the day we used to race lowered offroad cars on pavement. Worked OK, but then someone came out with a pan car chassis that you bolted the gear box to and suddenly much faster. then you put a direct drive transmission in it since you really dont need the extra reduction for pavement and you pretty much end up with a pan car.

If you look at cost, a WGT is about $250, how is it going to be cheaper to make a full suspension car? Pan car has fewer bearing, fewer parts. Only way is to make is inj molded plastic, not carbon/aluminum. Now will that appeal to the hard core racer? Part of the appeal of the slash is the basher can run it in the yard and go race. How much fun is a 2wd touring car to run if you are not racing? Just seems like an answer to a question few are asking.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:49 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by pejota View Post
Sosidge is also following a great line of thought in focusing on the classes that already exist.

However, with the current crop of ESCs and their advance timing/boost profiles, current motor winds defining a class are pretty much a joke.

VTA guys are finding that 21.5 motors with boost are rivaling the times of 17.5 motors without. 17.5 now equals 13.5, etc, etc. Oval is seeing a huge issue where the 13.5 COT class was a great "slow" class for newbies. However the boost ESCs are adding LAPS to their times. Not seconds, but LAPS.

Lipo, brushless and boost ESCs are driving speeds into the stratosphere. It's up to the hobby to figure out the best way to reign this stuff back in and refresh/renew/create interest in RC.
I don't pretend to have a crystal ball, but my gut feeling is that the speedo technology is on the brink of maturing, and that within a season every speedo on the market will have an effective dynamic timing setting.

So, the debate about what is a realistic "stock motor" should be answered soon.
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Old 12-06-2009, 02:19 PM   #60
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We don't need a 2WD touring car class - WGT already exists. Pan cars are easier to maintain and set up, and drive far more responsively; what more could you ask for when trying to attract new racers?
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