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Old 12-05-2009, 11:52 PM   #31
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Seems the argument of 2wd drive cars being harder to drive is the point of the discussion.

Put the emphasis back on driving and control and less on holding on for dear life.

Another observation, i thought TC was created because people didn't like driving pan cars on beat up parking lot tracks? Now some people here are suggesting that if you want to go 2wd try WGT?

Maybe we need a hybrid of WGT and TC. Front and rear suspension like a TC but direct drive like WGT that can use hex based wheels like the F103 GT.

Heck, while i am it, someone take the rear axle assembly from a crawler, add some ladder bars, mount a motor towards the front of a car, and make a "scale" NASCAR rig!

Or i can just put the bottle down and go to bed.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:10 AM   #32
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all this talk about how expensive it is for tc,i bet most people complaining probably already have one so just buy some tires and run those tc's, you dont have to buy a new car just because someone comes out with a new car.(even though thats part of the fun)

it's not cheap to run 1/12th scale either, tons of tires,and high dollar sc's.

i know a speed control that costs more than a corally009, tc5,tc5,type r, and a photon so.. why complain about tc when most of the tc's are cheaper then the previous model they replaced except for a few.

right know this hobby is cheaper than ever were just a little tighter with our money but it will bounce back i think were all in kind of a panic cuz we love this ....
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:12 AM   #33
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How about a front motor RWD, just like the real cars? That's a whole new dimension of "different". Extra wide rear tires will have to be developed. I don't think 24mm is optimal for a rwd TC.

And don't tease my M04. It's a great car to practice steering and throttle control.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:48 AM   #34
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Back when Touring cars started gaining traction in the American market (lead mostly by Tamiya & Yokomo) FWD cars were quite popular and very fun to drive.
Power was mostly Silver can, any more than that and the tires just spun, regardless they were easy to drive and the racing was the tightest I've ever seen, shame they fell out of favour to the 4WD's as they could have co-existed.
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Old 12-06-2009, 03:10 AM   #35
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I am pretty sure big companies like Tamiya have good marketing departments which would tell them if a 2WD sedan class would be a profitable market to get into. Right now, it looks like they're quite happy with the mini class and even that seems to have abandoned the RWD minis. That said, I have a RWD mini and it's fun to drive (even though I am not allowed to race) and on pace withthe FWD minis. Takes a bit of effort to set up but it works. On carpet though, I did not manage to find a setup that works. On tarmac, no problems I can hold my own more than honourably.

As for spec classes, the Hobbywing combo is one way to do it, albeit not as cheap as some might have you believe.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:15 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Back when Touring cars started gaining traction in the American market (lead mostly by Tamiya & Yokomo) FWD cars were quite popular and very fun to drive.
Power was mostly Silver can, any more than that and the tires just spun, regardless they were easy to drive and the racing was the tightest I've ever seen, shame they fell out of favour to the 4WD's as they could have co-existed.
And there power was limited to within traction boundaries. That will make racing fun...but if you just limit traction without a corresponding reduction in power it won't be so fun.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:26 AM   #37
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Even if 1/12th is a supply and demand issue in terms of price...2wd full suspension cars would be too as the class would be highly specialized to start with a very low supply and low demand.

I rarely ever break anything in on-road where when I ran a XX4 and a B4 I was constantly breaking front bulkheads and suspension arms. So yeah off-road can be more fragile than on-road.

I wouldn't say current 4wd is too easy to drive. I still find them quite a challenge. Maybe if you are driving on carpet with a ton of grip but not everyone has that luxury.

You think 2wd can be more planted with it's newer suspension...but that's just it...think...So far people who have tried it by removing the front drive from a 4wd have found them to be a handful.

Being competitive and looking good are often not one in the same. I would like to as well but if looking good costs me any performance then I'm going for the performance not the looks.

The low turn out these last 2 years has mainly been a result of a poor economy. Adding a new class isn't going to change that.
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:20 AM   #38
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Lol just try drive a M04 with something faster than a black can. Then you will see why 2wd touring never caught on. It's harder to drive than a 1/12th scale. Sure, the car is not the best a chassis can be, but the characteristics will be the same. Better yet, try drive your current 4wd as a RWD and then report back.
An M04 is very narrow compared to a TC. Make an M04 wider (by swapping the arms for TL01 arms) and see how much it improves.

I can only talk of my experiences with RWD independant suspension cars on road, they are an AE SC10 and a Schumacher Big 6 EP.

The SC10 is very softly dampened, so it leans over in the corners. the tyres have high sidewalls, but you can really throw it around before it breaks traction with a LiPo and a 10.5 on a low-ish grip concrete surface. Making the springs/oil harder/stiffer would help a lot, as would 1/8th buggy tyres because of the sidewalls.

The Big 6 always had more power than grip (we used to use 5900kv motors, Novak claim theirs to be approx. a 7.5). The car was 1/6th scale with an alloy chassis, wide and sticky tyres (but spec tyres, just one compound). That could light the tyres up if you were heavy on the throttle, but more than controllable with some restraint. That was on 3300's and 3700's NiMH packs too.

For an independant suspension RWD TC to work, I think it needs the following ingriedents:

-centralised motor, like a 2WD buggy. Ideally, the entire bulkheads/motor mount/layshaft assembly from the first Xray T1 or T1 Evo2 as the suspension mounts onto it, and could be attached to a carbon deck easily.

-wider rear tyres than front, through offset to make the track width at the rear, like HPI Vintage rims (210mm wide).

-WGT style front suspension.

If someone was handy with a rotary tool, they could make a car like that from an old Xray T1 and a Tamiya F103GT...
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:52 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by academygaz View Post
If someone was handy with a rotary tool, they could make a car like that from an old Xray T1 and a Tamiya F103GT...
The RC10 Stealth transmission reversed for a mid-motor mount layout would work too. With dremel work it could mount to a TC3 fairly easy. Just reengineer the shock tower mounts and you may have something there.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:49 AM   #40
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It wouldn't be as thin if you built one. If everybody sits back waiting for others to join the class may die (at your local track). if everybody that is thinking of joining when more do just get off their butt and do it the class will take off. This goes for any class at any track any where.
Good point there, but I have a legit reason for waiting for the class to fill in. I have been running a Speed Merchant Speed Spec in WGT whenever there are enough club racers running WGT to make a class.

For those of you who don't know the Speed Spec, It's a pan car with a double thick fiberglass chassis that weighs 2 oz. more than a legit WGT car. I can't catch the team drivers with it though. When there are only a couple team drivers running the class, It just isn't fun until the club level racers come back.

That does remind me of the other pitfall of spec racing. If the spec motors or chassis leave a racer with useless stuff when they move up, then it's hard to get people involved.

I tried to push the issue for a 17.5 1S lipo Speed Spec to revive the dead class. The few drivers from last year didn't want to be stuck with a 21.5 motor and a few half dead 4 cell NiMh packs they couldn't use anywhere else and I'm not buying a 21.5 when both of my sedans and 1/12th run 17.5 motors.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:51 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by academygaz View Post

For an independant suspension RWD TC to work, I think it needs the following ingriedents:

-centralised motor, like a 2WD buggy. Ideally, the entire bulkheads/motor mount/layshaft assembly from the first Xray T1 or T1 Evo2 as the suspension mounts onto it, and could be attached to a carbon deck easily.

-wider rear tyres than front, through offset to make the track width at the rear, like HPI Vintage rims (210mm wide).

-WGT style front suspension.

If someone was handy with a rotary tool, they could make a car like that from an old Xray T1 and a Tamiya F103GT...
You've just described a WGT car
We need some thing more radical like the design of that Russian TC or the Tigermoth
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:53 AM   #42
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You've just described a WGT car
We need some thing more radical like the design of that Russian TC or the Tigermoth
Or, you know, something cheap to actually attract racers......
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Even if 1/12th is a supply and demand issue in terms of price...2wd full suspension cars would be too as the class would be highly specialized to start with a very low supply and low demand.

in the beginning maybe but if it goes popular it gets lower, I'm trying to think positive, not thinking about what if fail kinda sort of mentality.

I rarely ever break anything in on-road where when I ran a XX4 and a B4 I was constantly breaking front bulkheads and suspension arms. So yeah off-road can be more fragile than on-road.

original Idea of mine was saying how 2WD is less fragile than a 4WD, yes XX4 had fr shock tower, fr arms, front bulkhead breakage, but a B4 breaks alot? I only broke 1 a arm when I crashed head on with some guy hit me head on by jumping in to opposite lane. 4WD is more fragile and thats known fact.

I wouldn't say current 4wd is too easy to drive. I still find them quite a challenge. Maybe if you are driving on carpet with a ton of grip but not everyone has that luxury.

current TC is challenge to drive???? hmmm..Like I said the TCs are too easy to drive thats what makes so hard to win. if you having a challenge to drive your TC thats something very wrong about you or your TC.

if you ever been on competitive carpet racing with rubbers you wouldn't say that, I race on asphalt all this summer and happened to drove 2WD TC on black top.




You think 2wd can be more planted with it's newer suspension...but that's just it...think...So far people who have tried it by removing the front drive from a 4wd have found them to be a handful.

my think is from real and all yours is just your negative think only. I don't know if you tried yourself a 2WD TC I know I did. your debating my real experience Vs some one told me kinda think.


Being competitive and looking good are often not one in the same. I would like to as well but if looking good costs me any performance then I'm going for the performance not the looks.

yep seem like you can't spare looking good part in your racing, when you having challenge to drive a TC around, I wouldn't either if I can't drive my TC decent.

The low turn out these last 2 years has mainly been a result of a poor economy. Adding a new class isn't going to change that.

read few thread above, someone said they having 100 ppl on Friday night racing at their local race with all this new SC10 class, slash, now HPI making one their own too. look what positive ideas can do if they don't stop em when someone told them " that idea is not good, some one told me it s no good, that not the way its been...yada yada...

we can do something to bring this class back on the map (1C Lipo, Brushless spec, 2WD class, etc) or we can just seat back keep come up with way to avoid any new challenge and watch this class or this racing dieing slowly, after all we can always blame the Federal reserve for bad economy.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:56 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by redbones View Post
How about a front motor RWD, just like the real cars? That's a whole new dimension of "different". Extra wide rear tires will have to be developed. I don't think 24mm is optimal for a rwd TC.

And don't tease my M04. It's a great car to practice steering and throttle control.
yeah I had a blast when I race my freinds Mini in 10min 11car main race, Mini's are awesome!
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:02 AM   #45
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And the best part is, all the 100 people were all racing the same truck. A stock Traxxas Slash. At a On Road track. See what "Cheap Spec Racing" can do?

I like this idea. I need to find the money tree and come out with a RTR/ ARTR 2wd Touring Car. Spec it. Sell it to track holding LHS's for cheap. AND BOOM. We got ourselves a turn out maker in our favorite genre of RC, ON ROAD.

Now if it was only that easy

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