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Old 05-23-2002, 02:21 PM   #16
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Remember there was a time when people thought that all you had to do to keep a brushed motor running at tip top shape was to shoot a little motor spray in it and when the brushes got really really short to replace them. Cutting the com, changing brush compounds, and spring tensions were never considered then. I think we are at this stage with the brushless motors right now, its still hazy.

I do see ways of making them run "different" involving changing the capacitance, inductance, inpedence, magnetic flux, stator inertia, and frequency.
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Old 05-23-2002, 05:24 PM   #17
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The brushless motors have been around for quite a while.
They were used (and are) by flyers and boaters.

The only drawback that they had for cars has to do with their speed controls.

1st : they were not smooth accelerating (in a boat that's a minor concern coz we want to get to plane speed fast)
2 nd: They overheated like mad if we didn't use full throttle most of the time.
3 rd: They were BIG

The basic design of the motor itself hasn't changed much since 3 or 4 years. Rare earth magets, strict tolerances and extra good BB's are their main characteristics.

I have an Aveox that looks like a jewel. The can and endbell are sublime (so far from our normal brushed motors).

Since they appeared people have been working in a decent ESC for cars and it seems they did it. At least with the first 2 points. The 3rd (BIG) is still way above the minimal ESC we can find today (LRP, NOSRAM, GM, ROBITRONIC etc)

However, they ROCK!!!!! Made to handle lower cell counts (my Aveox easyly handles 12 cells) they nned to have higher RPM/Volt in order to provide a decent speed on a car.

I have a Modeltech (if I'm not wrong it does 7.000 rpm/Volt) that has rpm similar to a hot 10 or 9, BUT a lot more power. I assume that instead of the normal 200 something Watts, it'll be in the range of 300Watts.

What this means is that I gear it from a 16 (64 dp) pinion to a 28 and the punch does not suffer noticeably, but the end speed reaches those of 1/8 On Road cars (oh yesssssss!!!!!)

We don't need to buy a combo from the same manufacturer.

There are two basic types - Sensor and sensorless motors and a given ESC can suit one of those needs. Better yet, a sensorless motor controller will control a sensor motor. The contrary is not true.

Their differ in the way they receive info from the motor regarding the stator position. One does that using a sensor, and the other does not.
Both types are reversible. If you can handle it, you can try to drive a rear steering car at full speed

In Europe LOTS of manufacturers do BL motors and controllers. Just to name a few, Kontronic, Modeltech, Lehner, Plettenberg, etc etc. In the US I remember Aveox and Astro Flight, now followed bu Novak (what about that motor???).

They're fun and give you the double of the run time for the same pack. My first test with a 3000 pack (blues Pana) gave me 18 minutes of FUN. How about that? Speed? Too much for my skills at the time I assure you.

BTW, the brakes are like hitting a brick wall... They STOP THE CAR. At first I used to look at my 64dp spurs to see if they still had teeth in them LOL
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Old 05-23-2002, 08:55 PM   #18
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Yes I agree with you that it is any company's dream to dominate their market and yes of course if there is a best combo then they can walk away with the prize. The fact is that best combo that lasts rarely happens with universal agreement. Most manufacturers would rather concentrate on what they do best at to stay at the top and not to spread themselves too thin. Tamiya is the only company I can think of that you can buy an entire car with every component with a Tamiya badge on it (even some parts are only badged) and even with such a giant company like Tamiya offering all the bits did not spell best in everything, a great offering of choices maybe until you count your pennies.

As to motor makers which should really be mostly called respected motor builders, rely heavily on people like EPIC, TDK etc etc...to provide a good base to start their products with to keep their cost down in R&D and manufacturing.... BL may well be available in similar fashion in future which can drive the cost down even further...

Standardisation is the only way I can see new rules for BL racing can be agreed on quiclkly to promote this new category and in theory it isn't that difficult as there are (I believe) 2 types of BL motors suitable for RC car application Current Feedback or Motion feedbact, and so far current feedback seems they way to go because it makes the motor simplier but at the same time makes the ESC design a bit more complicated.... I'd just wish they hurry up!!!
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Old 05-24-2002, 01:27 AM   #19
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Have you ever dynoed your brushless? I would like to dyno a brushless motor like Modeltech, but nobody has one around here. I understand one has to dyno it with it's speedo. Could your's do this? I have a home-built flywheel dyno working with my computers sound card and a software. I'm not very familiar with the commersial ones dynos. Btw, it's one great site you have!
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Old 05-24-2002, 03:31 PM   #20
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No, unfortunatelly not. My dyno and all the dynos for brushed motors "emulate" the behaviour of our esc's.

The ESC for running a brushless is very different and I can't test it.

I can compare it to my motors (checked on the dyno) that delivered around 200-220Watts.

This one is WAY MORE powerful. Thw other guys that saw the car run, didn't know what motor was in it, and they noticed "something". They couldn't tell what it was but the car seemed much faster in the straight and getting out of curves.

Of course, the crashes are also much better .
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Old 05-24-2002, 04:42 PM   #21
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Default brushless o to go time

I was wondering how long it takes for the esc to read the motor before car goes, I heard if you stop completely in a race it may take a sec or 2 before car will go again .
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Old 05-24-2002, 04:58 PM   #22
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I guess it takes less than that. From a stand still the feeling is just about the same as with a normal motor.

However there's a lag if we use the brake to full stop. Then the car takes a "little" time to regain motion.

I say a little coz it looks like the kind of lag we have with a radio glitch, but I think it must be below a second. It's like a momentary loss of control.

This happens more with sensorless motors. The ESC has to figure out the direction of rotation of the stator.
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Old 11-06-2002, 07:56 AM   #23
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Default Any Updates Lately?

I am bringing this topic back to the top and am wondering if anyone has anything new on the subject? I have been on the sidelines for the last six months finishing grad. school.... Anyone have any links to latest brushless happenings? Anything happening regading new classes or issues with racing? Have prices come down; where is the cheapest to get these (links?)? New brands, latest models?

Thanks in advance for any info....
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Old 11-07-2002, 06:57 AM   #24
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We've been running brushless motors at club level for most of this year with great results.
I reckon i've already saved more money than i would have spent on brushes and replacement motors, not to mention no motor maintanance.
I just hope that more clubs will allow the introduction of brushless motors.

Hacker Brushless Motors!!
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Old 11-07-2002, 04:19 PM   #25
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Thumbs up Brushless is coming!!!!

It is nice to see people putting their two sense in on the subject. I myself believe that this is far superior and that good examples have not been presented to the public. I have inside info because I work on R&D for hacker brushless motors. There are some other big drivers that share my feelings and I only hope that people will get to enjoy brushless as much as I have over the past year and 6 months. As other companies are concerned, I hope they work out any problems they are having. I would love to have a race with all the brushless companies competing against each other. It would be far more interesting than the current war between trinity and reedy in the brushed arena. Pricing of brushless seems on the high side but I couldn't even count the amount of money I have saved since I have been running brushless. Pricing will go down, but only after more development has occured. Development in my experience has occured rather fast. For example we tested with the same controller that Orion settled with and I wasn't amazed when they stopped shipping due to problems with the controller. There will be an explosion of brushless coming I can tell you that.
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Old 11-08-2002, 02:44 AM   #26
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I`ve ordered my Lehner basic 4200/warrior 7018 BL setup for a while ago, but it will take some time before I get it. Looking forward to it though The esc is pretty big. 7.8cm long and 3cm wide. At the radiocontrolzone.com they have a good topic with lots of information about some Bl motors and esc`s (the new hacker car esc)
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Old 11-08-2002, 08:24 AM   #27
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Here is a website that contains some brushless motor information.

There is great need for a sarcasm font.

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

Sometimes I post just to look at my avatar.
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