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Old 11-30-2009, 12:09 PM   #31
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Here are the rules you speak of , I dont see a speedo rule here......

[/B]
That rule was just posted this morning on a local thread. Rob King who heads up the USVTA is local as is Kevin Kane, who made that post and is also very instrumental in USVTA. Not sure if they have had the chance to update their rules. A month or so ago they banned the use of the turbo function in the Tekin RS also. Tekin even offered to make a "VTA" software for them.

This is probably a discussion for the VTA thread...
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:11 PM   #32
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To me, this says run mod, run mod, run mod. I will never pay 350 bucks for a esc
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:12 PM   #33
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I started the program out here in Seattle and we are having a solid 1:12 turnout. In so many ways, 1S has been a blessing, but this speedo war is coming at the wrong time. I don't favor the notion of banning new products. But sometimes a step has to be taken to give competitive racers on a budget a fighting chance. At the same time the Black Diamond is out, the Novak Havoc 1S is out. There's a 10.5 package that can be had for $150-$160 (grind the heatsink, or the direct fit low profile plate is $6, and the booster is built in.) So...

Any speedo, any profile, any motor up to a 13.5t, or...

the Novak Havoc 1S/10.5t package as a Super Stock alternative. You'd have to run the Novak motor, and the hash mark has to line up with the backplate screw. But, at less than half the price, with the motor, it might give the competitive budget racer some hope. I suppose, too, that the same model could apply to Stock.

Travel racers can still do what they think they have to do, but the all-important club racers get some defense.

(And BTW, I'm not affiliated with, sponsored, or otherwise supported by Novak in any way.)
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:38 PM   #34
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Your information is partially correct. Yes Horizon will be distributing this ESC in the future. The exact pricing is yet to be determined. I would look for it to be about the same as what CRC is selling it for.

The higher price of this ESC has more to do with the Euro to Dollar exchange rate than someone trying to cash in on this product. Trust me CRC is doing everything they can to keep the price down.
Sonny, thanks for the clarification. Looks I will need to start saving up now.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:03 PM   #35
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What an odd time in RC. Castle releases an ESC with all the moderns features you could want for $110 at almost the same time the most expensive ESC in history (by a lot) is released with rather limited features by today's standards.

This whole thing is depressing as hell though. Mod really is cheaper.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:13 PM   #36
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Just my 2 cents.

It's not like we're being forced to buy this exact speedo. The other manufacturers will come out with new stuff (or updates) that will get them back to where the Black diamond is.

Banning anything is pretty lame IMO. Frank is releasing what is obviously a good speedo. I'll bet he's working on getting the price down.

What's next, Banning the new Novak as soon as it's out? Ban the Castle speedo? Tekin?

If there is a need, ROAR could place a price cap on the speedo's but that wouldn't help all of the races that aren't ROAR events now would it...
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:18 PM   #37
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It looks like the current trend in rc racing is to go faster.

So why don't people run mod? I bought a 6.5 for my 4wd and for fun I put it in my touring car and it was definitely faster than my 13.5. Same esc just a different $65 motor.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Slotmachine View Post
Here are the rules you speak of , I dont see a speedo rule here......
It's new, as in only a few hours old. Check the USVTA thread, look for RobK's post. I feel it was a wise decision. Since the dawn of touring car racing, the slower classes like stock didn't have adjustable timing, and VTA was intended to be a slow class. There's no reason a VTA running 21.5 power should be wearing tires out in two-three race days. This rule helps curb that issue.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:39 PM   #39
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You won't be when a $400 speedo comes out for off-road that has some sort of "Traction Control" in it... I don't believe off-road is immune for this, as if an ESC can h.p. up for on-road, I'm sure it can be programmed/designed to h.p. down for off-road (i.e. traction control). Someone is probably already working on it.
Actually, it won't. That came out about 10 years ago, with a speedo GM was selling. Had a piezoelectric gyroscope built in, and could tie into your steering servo. It would compare slip angle vs steering input, and countersteer/decrease the throttle for you to control your slide. Traction control technology was outlawed by ROAR way back then. The only thing you'll see for offroad for 'traction control' is current limiting, which is a common feature already, and has been even in way old brushed speedo's.

Offroader's would first go out and spend $400 in tires and inserts, before they'd spend it on a speedo.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:41 PM   #40
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That rule was just posted this morning on a local thread. Rob King who heads up the USVTA is local as is Kevin Kane, who made that post and is also very instrumental in USVTA. Not sure if they have had the chance to update their rules. A month or so ago they banned the use of the turbo function in the Tekin RS also. Tekin even offered to make a "VTA" software for them.

This is probably a discussion for the VTA thread...
Not JUST the Tekin RS, but any speedo that has a similar function. LRP, KO, GM, etc. Please don't just single out the Tekin. Oh, and the last time I saw a post about it, it was a SUGGESTED rule, not a hard and fast one, yet. Maybe it is by now, and that's fine.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
Just my 2 cents.

It's not like we're being forced to buy this exact speedo. The other manufacturers will come out with new stuff (or updates) that will get them back to where the Black diamond is.

Banning anything is pretty lame IMO. Frank is releasing what is obviously a good speedo. I'll bet he's working on getting the price down.

What's next, Banning the new Novak as soon as it's out? Ban the Castle speedo? Tekin?

If there is a need, ROAR could place a price cap on the speedo's but that wouldn't help all of the races that aren't ROAR events now would it...

No one should really be too concerned about the price. Say there are about 50 in the united states right now (A guess) then of course the price is going to be high (Supply and demand) Until there more available to the public, the price will be dropped, just like any other speed control out. Another reason why Frank had the price high was because since it's a newer release, CRC had to have most of them shipped from wherever there were being produced from, and the airmail cost's were a good bit.

All that is needed in this whole situation is time, or nothing else is going to resolve from it. Other company's can compete, but probably won't duplicate what this speedo can do just yet.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #42
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The new speedo has already been banned at my local track until after Jan. 1st.

It's not being banned because of price, because if it was slow there would be no ban. It's being banned because of it's performance. Period!

From what I have read the complaints are coming from guys who are sponsored and are not used to paying full price. They will just have to wait until their sponsor upgrades or pay up. For the rest of us, we always have to pay up.

I remember buying an LRP because my Novak was slow, then I had to buy a Tekin because my LRP was slow. In 17.5 class a little extra makes a big diffence, even for a slow guy like me.

In my opinion, there should be a limit on everything or nothing. To isolate one manufacture over an other is unfair. It would be banning something because your pissed off that someone has something better than you do. Not for the better of everyone like a spec tire rule does.

I know for a fact that if the situation was reversed at our track and Tekin had the big advantage, there would be no ban. You see alot of red flashing lights under the bodies at our races.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Stealth_RT View Post
Not JUST the Tekin RS, but any speedo that has a similar function. LRP, KO, GM, etc. Please don't just single out the Tekin. Oh, and the last time I saw a post about it, it was a SUGGESTED rule, not a hard and fast one, yet. Maybe it is by now, and that's fine.
I don't want to debate VTA rules. This thread is about the Black Diamond and possible bans. I was replying about the new rule in USVTA about the Black Diamond and was stating that the USVTA has already made similar rules around the Tekin turbo feature...

http://www.rctech.net/forum/6438566-post245.html

How did I single out Tekin? If you think I was bashing Tekin...I wasn't, I own three of them.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
The new speedo has already been banned at my local track until after Jan. 1st.

It's not being banned because of price, because if it was slow there would be no ban. It's being banned because of it's performance. Period!

From what I have read the complaints are coming from guys who are sponsored and are not used to paying full price. They will just have to wait until their sponsor upgrades or pay up. For the rest of us, we always have to pay up.

I remember buying an LRP because my Novak was slow, then I had to buy a Tekin because my LRP was slow. In 17.5 class a little extra makes a big diffence, even for a slow guy like me.

In my opinion, there should be a limit on everything or nothing. To isolate one manufacture over an other is unfair. It would be banning something because your pissed off that someone has something better than you do. Not for the better of everyone like a spec tire rule does.

I know for a fact that if the situation was reversed at our track and Tekin had the big advantage, there would be no ban. You see alot of red flashing lights under the bodies at our races.


That is a bunch of BS if it really is for the sponsored drivers at your track. If sponsored drivers want to be in the stock class (something I have no problem with) then they need to take the good with the bad.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:21 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
The new speedo has already been banned at my local track until after Jan. 1st.

It's not being banned because of price, because if it was slow there would be no ban. It's being banned because of it's performance. Period!

From what I have read the complaints are coming from guys who are sponsored and are not used to paying full price. They will just have to wait until their sponsor upgrades or pay up. For the rest of us, we always have to pay up.

I remember buying an LRP because my Novak was slow, then I had to buy a Tekin because my LRP was slow. In 17.5 class a little extra makes a big diffence, even for a slow guy like me.

In my opinion, there should be a limit on everything or nothing. To isolate one manufacture over an other is unfair. It would be banning something because your pissed off that someone has something better than you do. Not for the better of everyone like a spec tire rule does.

I know for a fact that if the situation was reversed at our track and Tekin had the big advantage, there would be no ban. You see alot of red flashing lights under the bodies at our races.


In our regional series here it has also been banned until it is more widely available.
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