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Old 11-29-2009, 01:31 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
The only speed control that should be illegal is the new Advanced Electronics speedo. NOT because it's fast, but because of the price.
I know you mean this in jest, but I agree for the most part... Stock motors had a price they had to stay under. Now that speed controls seem to be more important than the particular motor, ROAR and whomever else should place a price restriction on "stock"/17.5 class speed control prices. A $200 limit seems quite reasonable.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:36 AM   #107
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$399 for the Advance on CRC's preorder. That is the most insane price I've ever seen for an ESC.

Price limits sure would be nice. The motors should have them too. Brushless motors cost 2x as much as their old brushed counter parts, which is a bit annoying.

On topic: Don't ban the advance of technology. In a couple years even basic ESCs will have timing boost built in as the standard setup. The manufacturers will probably work out more complex setting options, but will hopefully just build those profiles into the ESC, so you can set your boost to any one of, say, 7 different profiles designed for different types of motors and tracks. That way you don't have to spend hours tweaking ever parameter of your car's power delivery.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:44 AM   #108
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No...moveable aerodynamics is still banned in F1. They do have different engine mappings though to save fuel or not. Typically it isn't used per section of the track but for when they need to conserve or not.
A defined section of the front wing of an F1 car can be adjusted by the driver a set number of times during a lap by a maximum of six degrees - new Rule for 2009, and used by everyone. Not sure if that's what you mean by moveable aerodynamics, but see this under "Aerodynamics".

This problem comes up in different guises whenever a new technology appears. It was the same with moving from 05 silver can motors to Yokomo-style external brushes 25 years ago, then 1400 cells, current-limiting speedos, tyres (of all types) and the original programmable speedos. Give it a couple of years and we'll all know where we are.

The hardest thing to do here would be to try and 'uninvent' these speedos - not going to happen, is it?
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:17 AM   #109
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When these speedos first came out I was definitely against them, because of the high cost of technology wars as others have mentioned.

However, after thinking about it more I feel that they are OK as long as they are updateable like the Tekin. $200 is a lot of money to spend for a speedo, but in theory that Tekin should be "the speedo of the month" every month for a long time, since they give out the updates for free. If a new form of boost or turbo is created in the future, you shouldn't need to buy a new speedo, you just need to update your current speedo.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:22 AM   #110
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The truth is that as long as money is involved, there will always be competition among manufactures to produce a better product. I believe that Tekin has come up with the best solution for the masses by providing a speedo with upgradeable software. Lots of guys at the track that are more than willing to share setups and computers, so no one is at a disadvantage as long as they are running Tekin. As far as the price, I paid $240 for a KO VFS-1 with handheld programmer. I paid $198 for the Tekin RS with Hotwire. I already have a computer, so no additional cost there. The problem is the manufactures that replace the old with the new and force you to buy a new speedo every time they are beat.

As far as the future of RC, I ran rubber tires on carpet yesterday with brushless and lipo. There was no maintenance on the car except blowing the fuzz off of it after each round. Gave me lots of time to play with setup and chat with friends. Helped a couple new guys with setup and even gave a guy a DNA body to replace the Mustang he was trying to run. Seems to me that RC is heading in the right direction.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:30 AM   #111
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I was flabbergasted when I learned of these new ESC's with advancing timing adjust. Having control over static timing through the ESC is one thing but dynamic as well has really clouded the whole reason for stock racing. I have seen the difference between a advancing ESC to a non-advancing ESC racing on-road on a fairly good sized parking lot track and it wasn't pretty.....it was like two different class's running together. I gave up on-road for good this summer....Between the $200 ESC's and two run rubber tires, I had enough. I run nothing but off-road now and completely fine with my old-school ESC's.....there is no 150 foot straight away where I race.

ROAR should of seen this coming and placed rules on the manufactures preventing them from forcing these high buck ESC's down our throats. The manufactures should of know better as well. They turned a class that was suppose to be affordable to something its not. Well, its to late now....the gates are open.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:11 AM   #112
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There are cheaper escs out there that are as fast if not faster than the high end escs. Examples are Team Wave RBs, Castle Creations Mamba Max Pro, Team Orca Vritra and so on. Pretty soon every brushless esc will have dynamic timing advance... No big deal.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:18 AM   #113
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Roar could just stop basing class's on motors and finally base them on experience instead ...
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:36 PM   #114
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Do some people have short memories?

Racers clamoured for BL with statements like "saving RC" and "this is the future". Enough people said it would lead to a computer on every pit table, that software would rule the track, and that low-cost classes would suffer. But no, there was no one who wanted to retain BR.

ROAR made Rules for the classes in line with its members wishes, not the other way round. We brought this on ourselves through a headlong rush into something that the more experienced racers said would cause these problems.

Complain as you wish, we brought this on ourselves. I like Lowrance's stance - found a class he likes that doesn't depend on tricky ESCs. This thread may make you feel better, but it'll change nothing. Live with it, or change class.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:12 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
Do some people have short memories?

Racers clamoured for BL with statements like "saving RC" and "this is the future". Enough people said it would lead to a computer on every pit table, that software would rule the track, and that low-cost classes would suffer. But no, there was no one who wanted to retain BR.

ROAR made Rules for the classes in line with its members wishes, not the other way round. We brought this on ourselves through a headlong rush into something that the more experienced racers said would cause these problems.

Complain as you wish, we brought this on ourselves. I like Lowrance's stance - found a class he likes that doesn't depend on tricky ESCs. This thread may make you feel better, but it'll change nothing. Live with it, or change class.
It's half a dozen of one and six of another. Every pit table used to need a $200 comm lathe and assorted break in equipment, multiple spec motors since you were trying to find a "good" one, brushes, springs, etc. not to mention the "good" motors that never rebuilt like they were before.....

This is part of the transfer over to a new technology...And it does stink. At some point it will level off, but right now it's getting crazy.

Please don't think that all of us thought it would equalize everything. It did improve the experience of racing vis a vis maintenance and consistency of the product, whic is all you can ask for. I should have sold swamp land to the guys who thought everything was going to be equal.
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