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Old 02-27-2004, 11:00 AM   #61
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Originally posted by RC Driver Gary
The glass is half empty?

I dunno, if the track owners are doing their jobs as sales people, that can help reduce the number of people who fall under #1. Plus, I am sure on a track by track basis the rules can be tweaked to allow more then this one chassis if it falls under the spirit of the series. For example, some kid brings his RTR TC3 to the track. I'd say let him race. But another kid brings a FT TC3, well, that's not in the spirit of the series and he should run in sportsman or stock.

Speed costs money, and sometimes people are tired of getting outspent. So instead of bringing new blood into the hobby, this can help retain some of the people who would have otherwise left because of cost or frustration.

I hate this arguement. If you put in a claim rule, there is no incentive to cheat. In addition, just because someone is faster doesn't mean they have to be cheating. There's a club here that runs Tamiya and Duratrax F1 cars. When I or a friend of mine show up we kick butt. It's not because we cheat, but because we know how to set up our cars, we use better charging equipment, and frankly are better drivers. We've since been told that we are not welcome there anymore. One nimrod even claimed we designed a jig to advance the timing on mabuchi motors. Generally speaking, at least around here in my experience, cheating happens much less often then people really think.

My glasses are always full my friend!

How about David Junn making parts for his F201 at the Reedy Race?

I wouldn't want to go to a track and be talked out buying a certain car. The job at a LHS isn't to make people buy a certain car. I never did that when I worked at one and I wouldn't expect somebody to do it to me. Real car dealers try that crap all the time.

You fell right into what I was pointing out. Kids are going to show up with different cars and then a different class forms, diluting the classes.
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Old 02-27-2004, 11:12 AM   #62
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How about David Junn making parts for his F201 at the Reedy Race?
You're comparing apples and oranges. This series isn't meant for the Dave Jun's of the world. (When did he run an F201 at the Reedy race, was it an exhibition race?)

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I wouldn't want to go to a track and be talked out buying a certain car. The job at a LHS isn't to make people buy a certain car. I never did that when I worked at one and I wouldn't expect somebody to do it to me. Real car dealers try that crap all the time.
I think the LHS that doesn't look at the person who is looking to get into the hobby and doesn't make suggestions would be rather negligent. I'm not saying that they should force someone to buy X-car, but there are ways to present the class as well. This is one of the reason's Tamiya is so big in our area. People see the benefits of running the cars in the regionals and nationals, along with the fact that they are pretty competitive cars (especially the Evo). It's a matter of properly qualifying your customer, suggesting 2-3 items that may suit their needs, then asking for the sale. Yes, it's a hobby, yes, you become friends with your customers, but it is first a business. There's nothing wrong with "selling" in a hobby shop. I would be less pissed off for someone in a shop selling someone a spec kit then I am when I see them sell some rookie a 9x1 and a super-duper 3300 pack just because the person said that's what they thought they wanted.

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My glasses are always full my friend!
Damn, that way I don't get to buy you a pint the next time we're at the same race doing coverage together
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Old 02-27-2004, 11:24 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by RC Driver Gary
You're comparing apples and oranges. This series isn't meant for the Dave Jun's of the world. (When did he run an F201 at the Reedy race, was it an exhibition race?)



I think the LHS that doesn't look at the person who is looking to get into the hobby and doesn't make suggestions would be rather negligent. I'm not saying that they should force someone to buy X-car, but there are ways to present the class as well. This is one of the reason's Tamiya is so big in our area. People see the benefits of running the cars in the regionals and nationals, along with the fact that they are pretty competitive cars (especially the Evo). It's a matter of properly qualifying your customer, suggesting 2-3 items that may suit their needs, then asking for the sale. Yes, it's a hobby, yes, you become friends with your customers, but it is first a business. There's nothing wrong with "selling" in a hobby shop. I would be less pissed off for someone in a shop selling someone a spec kit then I am when I see them sell some rookie a 9x1 and a super-duper 3300 pack just because the person said that's what they thought they wanted.


Damn, that way I don't get to buy you a pint the next time we're at the same race doing coverage together

I'm not arguing that it can't work, but there are always to different shoes to every subject.
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Old 02-27-2004, 11:26 AM   #64
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Agreed. And I do see your side, but I have also seen a spec program really work well too.
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Old 02-27-2004, 11:29 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by RC Driver Gary
Agreed. And I do see your side, but I have also seen a spec program really work well too.
Me too, but I'm just trying to get people to stop categorically hating Trinity for releasing a TC. They have stolen anybodies puppy...yet at least.

I'm for SPEC racing at a club level. 100% against any sort of limit on the National and Worlds level.
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Old 02-27-2004, 11:33 AM   #66
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Wow, there was just a dialoge with Derek on here, and no-one got pissed off. See guys, don't flame him and he's a good guy J/K Derek.

I agree, I think if it was anyone but Trinity's name on it, the concept might have a little better initial acceptance. That't one of the problems with being successful. Look at the way Earnhardt Sr. and Gordon got booed when they were the top dogs. same thing here.
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Old 02-27-2004, 12:47 PM   #67
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Nice dialogue you two !!! I can't fault Trinity for attempting to market this car. Maybe they are starting to see what alot of us are starting to see. To few new drivers, existing drivers bailing out of the hobby, high level competition over emphasized, to little "fun factor", family atmosphere lacking, costs driven up by the " if you aren't using this product, you aren't competitive" attitude.

Tamiya has it good....a great program, a large product line , enough rules to make racing accessible for all and enough flexibility to allow drivers to make some of their own decisions regarding critical items ie: motors, esc's, radios.
Regardless of how you feel about Tamiya or Trinity, Spec type racing should be encouraged.

Last edited by Evoracer; 02-27-2004 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 02-27-2004, 01:07 PM   #68
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I think this is a good idea to the R/C industry as it is good for those that really want to get into racing at your local track only to find out the piece everything together which cost them well over $400 and come out racing only to find out that-that pro-level TC they bought broke on lap 4 then another problem... It happens all the time at my track only to see new guys wearing out the hobby shop and eventually leaving the hobby a couple races later. Now, with this kit which looks tough it shouldn't be hard on the wallet and if they decide to drop the hobby they didn't end up spending twice as much on stuff to race so it should keep them in the hobby.

Last edited by webspinner; 02-27-2004 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 02-27-2004, 04:07 PM   #69
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Originally posted by webspinner
I think this is a good idea to the R/C industry as it is good for those that really want to get into racing at your local track only to find out the piece everything together which cost them well over $400 and come out racing only to find out that-that pro-level TC they bought broke on lap 4 then another problem... It happens all the time at my track only to see new guys wearing out the hobby shop and eventually leaving the hobby a couple races later. Now, with this kit which looks tough it shouldn't be hard on the wallet and if they decide to drop the hobby they didn't end up spending twice as much on stuff to race so it should keep them in the hobby.

Part of the reasaon why off-road is generally more fun. Even with a bad setup and a tweaked vehicle it's never as bad of an experience as on-road. 1/8 scale offroad is amazing. If you've never gone to a big race go and watch. I'm still amazed that I can miss a triple tumble for 50 ft and drive away without a question. In fact I broke my first part after a year of racing. A front arm and I think that's because I lost an e-clip and the hinge pin moved out.
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Old 02-27-2004, 04:25 PM   #70
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You are absolutely correct on offroad, to prove it, a half of a degree of camber off will not upset the handling. Heck I remember one race I found almost all my Associated ball cups bent to hell and back but really couldn't the buggy was handling differant. Oh I see 1/8th scales in action, the CJ's link in my signatures usually has a turnout of 20 or so every Sat. night on a 150'X75' track.
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:17 AM   #71
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I like this idea. The car looks ok. The last Trinity Spec Class was not expensive (I bought 5 spec packs for the same price I paid for 1 top matched pack), they have same motors and batteries now. Tamiya and HPI both have spec classes. Why not Trinity.
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:43 AM   #72
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Default I love this idea

Is it just me, or is far too much emphasis being put on equipment when it comes to winning races? A dozen adages come to mind (In order to finish first, you must first finish) and most of them have to do with driving.
A well-run spec class is a true driver's class. Some of us are tinkerers (I'm guilty!) and enjoy nothing more than a tricked out machine that isn't necessarily a performer. But I would love to participate in a true driver's class. One in which the difference between winning and losing is the ability to stay off the boards and out of harm's way. A good driving line and consistency.

One way to accomplish this is to slow the cars down. A slower stock motor would keep you from using plain old horsepower and making up for poor driving by powering past others on the straights. Instead, you're now focusing more on braking points and setting your car up for maximum acceleration onto the straight since you've only got so much power to deal with.

Now that's something I could sink my teeth into!
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:58 AM   #73
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'trinity is only out to make money' - duh, ya think?

trinity, like any manufacturer, can only do so much with a given program. the clubs/tracks/shops have to embrace the idea and promote it. tcs is popular in large part due to the fact that most of the classes have unique vehicles. if the series consisted solely of low-end tc's, it would not be nearly as popular.

i am not sure we should be comparing a spec CAR to a manufacturer supported SERIES. they're two different beasts. the vast majority of places i race do not have any tamiya based classes during club races. so as a 'spec' class, i would say the tamiya cars are failures. from a series standpoint though (which does not support week to week racing for hobby shops), it's a great success.

personally, i wish trinity success in this. their goal (making money) is also my goal because it means growing the hobby. i do think low end kits of 'competitive' racers have a better chance of taking off, but i don't see horizon/ae coming out with a complete rtr package for under 200.
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Old 03-18-2004, 12:48 PM   #74
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We have run a spec class in the slotcar world...the track owns the tires and motor...and in r/c would own the batteries also.... all of the items are numbered and you draw a number out of the hat...what you get is what you run that weekend and maybe get something better next weekend. You just supply the t-spec chassis and make it have a choice of 3 or 4 bodies that you can use to make the class more interesting. It would be a thing like you pay 15 a week and at the end of the series you get to keep whatever you used the last race. To me that would be the most logical thing to do and keep the racing fair so people cant buy 10 batteries and 5 motors and pick the best and sell the rest!
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Old 03-18-2004, 01:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brandon R
We have run a spec class in the slotcar world...the track owns the tires and motor...and in r/c would own the batteries also.... all of the items are numbered and you draw a number out of the hat...what you get is what you run that weekend and maybe get something better next weekend. You just supply the t-spec chassis and make it have a choice of 3 or 4 bodies that you can use to make the class more interesting. It would be a thing like you pay 15 a week and at the end of the series you get to keep whatever you used the last race. To me that would be the most logical thing to do and keep the racing fair so people cant buy 10 batteries and 5 motors and pick the best and sell the rest!
Couldnt have said it better myself!!

But-having said that-our NOvices drive more expensive cars than the A-Main guys do!! They have $600 Barracudas, BMI eTC3 w/ Keyence speed controls and Digi servos!!! For our novices-they dont care about the cost of the kits-they just want cheap tires because they chunk them so fast!!

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