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Old 01-15-2011, 11:05 AM   #136
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a couple other open questions came to mind.

the 120L setup sheet has a track width measurement. it is front view with dimensioning lines referencing the front tires. but it looks like this value 172mm is referring to the rear width. 172 just seems too wide to be referring to the front but i had to ask.

the original s120 axles were too short but the new version could give 1.5mm or so of more offset. is anyone using a front width adjustment beyond the offset lower arm insert?

i also wondered if anyone is getting rapid wear in the upper hinge inserts? after only one race day there seems to be a noticable increase freeplay between the hinge pin and insert. the front end was very nicely slop free when built. i had pretty good luck with the car with no hard crashes so i was a little surprised at the wear.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:14 PM   #137
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i also wondered if anyone is getting rapid wear in the upper hinge inserts? after only one race day there seems to be a noticable increase freeplay between the hinge pin and insert. the front end was very nicely slop free when built. i had pretty good luck with the car with no hard crashes so i was a little surprised at the wear.
bump, so am i the only one with freeplay in the upper hinges?
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:34 PM   #138
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bump, so am i the only one with freeplay in the upper hinges?
Just about everyone has play in the upper arms. I think the only fix is new hinge pin holders (inserts). Thin teflon washers (or shims) would help too.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:57 PM   #139
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Just about everyone has play in the upper arms. I think the only fix is new hinge pin holders (inserts). Thin teflon washers (or shims) would help too.
there is little to no play when first assembled, but after 2 days worth of practice and racing there is elongation of the hold in the insert. there is a small amount of freeplay that a shim could help, but the main source is from the oval shape in the insert.

new inserts every weekend seems extreme so i was hopeful for a more clever (cheaper) answer.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:54 AM   #140
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Just about everyone has play in the upper arms. I think the only fix is new hinge pin holders (inserts). Thin teflon washers (or shims) would help too.
i was thinking(hoping) maybe there was a trick to 'harden' the insert.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:04 PM   #141
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i was thinking(hoping) maybe there was a trick to 'harden' the insert.
I run drop of ca through the hole of the upper a arm. Then ream with a 2mm drill so it fits snuglyon the pin. I find most play is there not in the insert.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:20 PM   #142
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I run drop of ca through the hole of the upper a arm. Then ream with a 2mm drill so it fits snuglyon the pin. I find most play is there not in the insert.
Does that mean you eliminate the insert?
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:58 PM   #143
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The play in the upper arm is more the arm sliding front to back, not wiggling on the hinge pin. But since the setscrew is tight, the only explanations are:

1) the aluminum caster block has splayed apart, making the gap between the inserts larger.

2) The white shims have worn, allowing the arm to slide back and forth.

3) The inserts have worn by the front to back movement of the upper arm, with the hinge pin acting as a punch, making the hole in the insert deeper.

or some combination of the three. The inserts themselves are tight in the caster blocks, and the setscrews on the hinge pins are tight. Maybe a drop of CA in the hole in the insert, and then drill only deep enough to remove the play?
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:29 PM   #144
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I run drop of ca through the hole of the upper a arm. Then ream with a 2mm drill so it fits snuglyon the pin. I find most play is there not in the insert.
understood, but it seemed like this was other than the typical play in the pin to upper arm or axial play that can be shimmed.

i looked more closely and noted that although there some lateral play in the insert, the axial play allows the pin to move in the hole and i think it adds an illusion of more movement than there really is.

i will resolve the two more typical sources first.
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:11 PM   #145
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The play in the upper arm is more the arm sliding front to back, not wiggling on the hinge pin. But since the setscrew is tight, the only explanations are:

1) the aluminum caster block has splayed apart, making the gap between the inserts larger.

2) The white shims have worn, allowing the arm to slide back and forth.

3) The inserts have worn by the front to back movement of the upper arm, with the hinge pin acting as a punch, making the hole in the insert deeper.

or some combination of the three. The inserts themselves are tight in the caster blocks, and the setscrews on the hinge pins are tight. Maybe a drop of CA in the hole in the insert, and then drill only deep enough to remove the play?
that all makes sense. as noted in my reply to Julius, there is some lateral play in the hole, but axial play is making it look worse. (as the pin moves in the insert, the light makes the lateral movement more pronounced than it really is)

i will shim out the axial play with a fresh upper arm and then see what the insert really contributes to the problem.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:32 AM   #146
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Also switch to the Associated R5 shims. They fit perfect and give just the correct amount of play in the front end.

New. Switch to soft side springs (Associated Silver or Green). You will like the results and no it won't make the car push.

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Old 01-25-2011, 08:07 AM   #147
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Also switch to the Associated R5 shims. They fit perfect and give just the correct amount of play in the front end.

New. Switch to soft side springs (Associated Silver or Green). You will like the results and no it won't make the car push.

Steve Dunn
My setup from the indoor champs has this on there but used the stock serpent springs which are the same as the AE silver. There are some key things on there besides the springs that make a difference. If anyone has missed it, check a few pages back.

I also use the AE clips and use an over size drill blank for a hinge pin. I ream the arms and inserts for a no slop assembly. I honestly don't think its necessary as long as the camber is correctly set to compensate for the slop.

Paul
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:58 AM   #148
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Also switch to the Associated R5 shims. They fit perfect and give just the correct amount of play in the front end.

New. Switch to soft side springs (Associated Silver or Green). You will like the results and no it won't make the car push.

Steve Dunn
i had tried R5 shims in a hurry and thought they were too thick (i think i had 2 thick ones) thanks for suggesting it, a thick/thin pair does work just right.

i had tried blue and gold but went back to the kit spring. i will try softer, silver has been popular with the R5 drivers around here.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:07 AM   #149
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My setup from the indoor champs has this on there but used the stock serpent springs which are the same as the AE silver. There are some key things on there besides the springs that make a difference. If anyone has missed it, check a few pages back.

I also use the AE clips and use an over size drill blank for a hinge pin. I ream the arms and inserts for a no slop assembly. I honestly don't think its necessary as long as the camber is correctly set to compensate for the slop.

Paul
on my first outing with this car, i was very pleased with the steering, i felt more confident with it. when play developed in the front end i was concerned with losing that precise control so i may have been over-reacting.

as Carbon Joe pointed out, the set screw in the arm preloads the pin in the arm removing any play between pin and arm, leaving only pin/insert and axial play.

the R5 thick/thin pair of shims seem about .05mm thicker than the kit part which helps with axial.

i had tried R5 springs (20/22 blue/gold) but had gone back to the kit parts. i will get some silver/green and try some more.

thanks again to all for the help.
PS, Paul there is some out-of-stock items lately is Serpent-America due for a shipment soon?
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:07 AM   #150
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on my first outing with this car, i was very pleased with the steering, i felt more confident with it. when play developed in the front end i was concerned with losing that precise control so i may have been over-reacting.

as Carbon Joe pointed out, the set screw in the arm preloads the pin in the arm removing any play between pin and arm, leaving only pin/insert and axial play.

the R5 thick/thin pair of shims seem about .05mm thicker than the kit part which helps with axial.

i had tried R5 springs (20/22 blue/gold) but had gone back to the kit parts. i will get some silver/green and try some more.

thanks again to all for the help.
PS, Paul there is some out-of-stock items lately is Serpent-America due for a shipment soon?
The slop actually makes it easier to drive, I've seen a lot of winning cars that were so sloppy I could not believe it.

They are out of some parts and expecting an order this week.
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