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Old 11-03-2009, 09:54 PM   #16
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I agree. By this time next year, we will be full capable of adding timing the way they do to full size cars. This timing thing is not anything new, just new to RC cars.

Because BL motors have sensors now, the ESC can calculate RPM. RPM with TP angle/position is all we need. We can now "dynamically" add timing. Eventually we will be dragging a line across a graph with X and Y being RPM and TP.
I think this is happening already.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:07 PM   #17
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Does anyone can explain how to read motor timing? my speedpassion motor no advanced timing adjustable....but i want to know what is the factory timing....Please don't ask me send/call speedpassion to get this information...I want to know how to read from endbell....thanks....
the Speedpassion 17.5 and 13.5 are just about 12-14 degrees on the non adjustable motors. Which BTW is the same a Duo when its in the zero hole.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:04 PM   #18
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the Speedpassion 17.5 and 13.5 are just about 12-14 degrees on the non adjustable motors. Which BTW is the same a Duo when its in the zero hole.
how you read the motor timing from end-bell? can you explain to me? how do you know it is 0/15/30 degree? maybe you can show me in picture.... thanks...
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:41 AM   #19
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when you have the new V3 sp motor than it's standard on 12.
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Old 11-04-2009, 05:32 AM   #20
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I think this is happening already.
Yes. They're called Orca Vritra and Novak Kinetic. Which I thought was also the Tekin RS. Should've done more research after leaving the hobby for many years before plonking down some hard earned cash.

Logic told me that with the modern day electronic technology available for many years now, this should be the norm in RC electronics. I was wrong.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:10 AM   #21
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Yes. They're called Orca Vritra and Novak Kinetic. Which I thought was also the Tekin RS. Should've done more research after leaving the hobby for many years before plonking down some hard earned cash.

Logic told me that with the modern day electronic technology available for many years now, this should be the norm in RC electronics. I was wrong.

It will be, no doubt. Just as computers took over every little thing revolutionising everything in the process, it will keep driving ESC and motor development to the point that you will be able probably to shift between programs on the fly from your radio so you are adjusting timing in real time indeed.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:42 AM   #22
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Adjusting the timing in RC cars is nothing new, we've been doing that for years with brushed motors.

What is new is the ability too adjust the timing and when it is applied electronically throught the ESC. It is the same principle but more refined and you can fine tune it to match your driving style unlike the old days where it was "set it and forget it".
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:06 AM   #23
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What puzzles me is a semi-techie like me knew immediately that variable timing according to speed and load can easily be done by a brushless esc the very moment sensored motors was introduced, took a long time to become reality.

And the irony is, newcomers like Team Wave and Team Orca, both from Hong Kong I think, are the few who had it first!.....

Who'll be copying who now??
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mjc168 View Post
how you read the motor timing from end-bell? can you explain to me? how do you know it is 0/15/30 degree? maybe you can show me in picture.... thanks...
There is no way to tell on the Speed Passion motors with fixed timing, because it doesn't really matter anyways (nothing to adjust). Some motors have markings on the back, like the Team Epic Duo2's.

I believe I read that the fixed timing Speed Passion motors have 11 degrees, but I don't know for certain.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:31 AM   #25
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What puzzles me is a semi-techie like me knew immediately that variable timing according to speed and load can easily be done by a brushless esc the very moment sensored motors was introduced, took a long time to become reality.

And the irony is, newcomers like Team Wave and Team Orca, both from Hong Kong I think, are the few who had it first!.....

Who'll be copying who now??

There is very little new there. The brushless system is based on three phase asynchronous motors which are as old as time itself. The new part is the computer added to the speedy when microprocessors became small, powerful and cheap enough to become economically viable in the R/C market. From now on, it's all going to be software and that is easy to write for teenagers so it is not a surprise at all it is coming out of SE Asian countries.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:35 AM   #26
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This thread is on it's way to getting out of hand already, lol.

I answered the questions most of you had in the RS thread.

Automotive and any other vairable rpm combustion engine has had variable timing for decades. Wether it was a distributor with flywheel weights and springs to todays cars with computer controlled timing based off of crank shaft speed, cam speed, variable cam phasers, etc.

I've spent some good years working on these systems in my previous years. These aren't "dynamic" neccessarily rather they're "reactive" to inputs. This isn't new and all brushless esc's have and are doing this now. It's in the "how" this info is applied that is the deteriming factor that makes each one faster than the other.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:00 AM   #27
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The variomatic of Daf. The first to use it and when it was tested in a Formula 1 car, it was for bitten before the first race because the car was a lot faster than all the others
Now you find the Technic in cars that use automatic shifting.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:31 PM   #28
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Like Randy says, this thread is out of hand already. Some posts here are made in good faith, but are misleading. If you are looking for something definitive in the answers to all your questions, you are going to be out of luck.

What's clear is that someone who has got to grips with this stuff, and has found the right motor/gearing/timing combination is going to be faster than someone who hasn't. How is that different from the days of BL 27T and 19T motors? How is it different to the guys who could get speed out of almost any BR motor, whilst most others couldn't?

Nothing has changed. All the information you need to get a fast car is in the other threads. The question is (and I appreciate some people will be insulted by this) can you understand it well enough to work on your car, and do you drive well enough to notice the difference? History (of the BR situation) tells us most of us can't!

There is no definitive answer to all your questions, but there are set-ups that are known to work in the other threads.

Can we all get back to the original RS threads - one for 2S and one for 1S?
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:44 PM   #29
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Having multiple threads for similar topics is very confusing. Therefore, I will close this one.
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