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Old 09-05-2004, 11:06 PM   #8806
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i have turned down my dual rate settings to 66%. and i have no problems with understeer.
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:15 AM   #8807
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corey Bernardo
Guys I have a simple but I guess in depth question for you. In the past I have ran a schumacher on carpet, the dropped them and tried out a losi. Loved the losi, but now I want something different. I drove a buddies Evo II car yesterday, and thought it was great. But I wanna ask you guys, questions about it. How does it hold up to tweak problems, does he pretty much stay dead on? Also any other of you guys two cents about the car, would be much appriciated...
u asking bout tweak on the evo 2 foc? picture this, yesterday, i was runing full throttle when i clipped one of the kerbs in our local race track, my car launched to the barriers and hit the fence first before landing on some pretty rough area. when the marshal picked up my car, i applied a little bit of throttle to check it for tweak and alas, no tweak.

this thing happened to me four times during the course of the entire race day, and you guessed it, no tweak.

hope this helps.
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:18 AM   #8808
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Default Settings and set-up

There's a pretty good, intelligent arguement going on on another thread and I figured I'd get the opinions of the electric side of the driver stand. So, here it goes.

I can understand checking set-up settings after a, maybe every run, but I'm questioning whether re-setting droop or up-stops is necessary base don tire wear [the meat of the discussion]?

Tire diameters don't, or at least I can't see the connection, impact droop, since it's set against the wheel hubs & chasis.

This logic incorrect?

^5
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:35 AM   #8809
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I think your right tom g. The droop isnt effected, its the ride height as tire wears down. As tire wears down the ride height needs to be adjusted to your liking. After every run so, i check my ride height and front/rear tweaks. I check the droop ever so often when i have the free time to change things around. Hope it helps and i hope i am right on the droop question.

-Jon
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:43 AM   #8810
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Default Re: Settings and set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom G
There's a pretty good, intelligent arguement going on on another thread and I figured I'd get the opinions of the electric side of the driver stand. So, here it goes.

I can understand checking set-up settings after a, maybe every run, but I'm questioning whether re-setting droop or up-stops is necessary base don tire wear [the meat of the discussion]?

Tire diameters don't, or at least I can't see the connection, impact droop, since it's set against the wheel hubs & chasis.

This logic incorrect?

^5
The reason is due to maintaining a ride hight. Think about have large tyres on your car, to achieve a give ride height, you'll need to apply very little pre-tension in the rear springs. This means that the car will "sink" into the suspension quite a bit when placed on the ground, i.e. the arms move in an upward direction and there is a large distance between the suspensions "resting" position and its position where the droop screws prevent further movement.
Now when the tyres have worn down, you have to add a lot more pre-tension onto the shocks and this means that the car no longer "sinks" so far when placed on the ground, i.e. there is no longer so much upward travel in the suspension when the car is placed onto the ground.
Due to this, the movement between this "resting" position and the position where the droop screws prevent further movement is much reduced - this is the reason why you have to rest the droop screw setting once the tyres wear down.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 09-06-2004, 06:12 AM   #8811
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Default Re: Re: Settings and set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
The reason is due to maintaining a ride hight. Think about have large tyres on your car, to achieve a give ride height, you'll need to apply very little pre-tension in the rear springs. This means that the car will "sink" into the suspension quite a bit when placed on the ground, i.e. the arms move in an upward direction and there is a large distance between the suspensions "resting" position and its position where the droop screws prevent further movement.
Now when the tyres have worn down, you have to add a lot more pre-tension onto the shocks and this means that the car no longer "sinks" so far when placed on the ground, i.e. there is no longer so much upward travel in the suspension when the car is placed onto the ground.
Due to this, the movement between this "resting" position and the position where the droop screws prevent further movement is much reduced - this is the reason why you have to rest the droop screw setting once the tyres wear down.

Cheers, Mark.
Ok, I can follow and nod positively on this theory [at least on the shock damping end].

However, if checking or changing the droop settings to compensate for smaller tire diameter and maintain the same same compression characteristics of the shock, wouldn't the desried effect be achieved by adjusting the shock mounting positions? Or would the different shock position drasticaly change the suspension/handling charactersitics of the car too much to offset the gain of the shock "pre-run and subsequent droop change"? There's gotta be a beeter way, there just has too [just kiddin']!

The height; I just don't buy! The ride height is adjusted through the resetting of the shock collars/thumb screws. If the droop is affecting your ride height, something is not right, or more times than not, too extreme [using too high of an upper, improperly adjusted sway bar, lower shock shaft joint too short/long or not being installed (screwed) enough or too much, etc., etc.,...].

Mark, I really understand your point and you have may stated this the clearest I've seen on the other thread.

^5

Man, I'm getting way too into this!

Last edited by Tom G; 09-06-2004 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 09-06-2004, 06:23 AM   #8812
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Quote:
Originally posted by JDXray
I think your right tom g. The droop isnt effected, its the ride height as tire wears down. As tire wears down the ride height needs to be adjusted to your liking. After every run so, i check my ride height and front/rear tweaks. I check the droop ever so often when i have the free time to change things around. Hope it helps and i hope i am right on the droop question.

-Jon
Thanks. Mark has a really good response but I can't help but play devil's advocate for a bit!

^5
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Old 09-06-2004, 06:31 AM   #8813
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Default Re: Re: Re: Settings and set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom G
wouldn't the desried effect be achieved by adjusting the shock mounting positions? Or would the different shock position drasticaly change the suspension/handling charactersitics of the car too much to offset the gain of the shock "pre-run and subsequent droop change"? There's gotta be a beeter way, there just has too [just kiddin']!
yes you could change the mounting position, but you would have to be able to not just move them up but also maintain the same angle in relation ot he arm at the lower mounting position. So that you do no change the compression ratio of the springs.
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Old 09-06-2004, 06:37 AM   #8814
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Default Re: Re: Re: Settings and set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom G
The height; I just don't buy! The ride height is adjusted through the resetting of the shock collars/thumb screws. If the droop is affecting your ride height, something is not right, or more times than not, too extreme [using too high of an upper, improperly adjusted sway bar, lower shock shaft joint too short/long or not being installed (screwed) enough or too much, etc., etc.,...].
it is not that the droop affects the ride height. It is that the ride height affects droop. As you adjust the screws on the shocks as Mark said you are effectively increasing the preload on the shock and reducting the amount the the chassis can travel. So you would have to increase the travel or on a guage (reduce the droop). That is actually one of the problems with using the guages to set droop. The guage only takes into account the chassis bottom and does not take into account the preload of the shocks. Or in other words the guage assumes that the ride height is always static.
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Old 09-06-2004, 08:38 AM   #8815
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Default Re: Re: Re: Settings and set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom G
Ok, I can follow and nod positively on this theory [at least on the shock damping end].

However, if checking or changing the droop settings to compensate for smaller tire diameter and maintain the same same compression characteristics of the shock, wouldn't the desried effect be achieved by adjusting the shock mounting positions? Or would the different shock position drasticaly change the suspension/handling charactersitics of the car too much to offset the gain of the shock "pre-run and subsequent droop change"? There's gotta be a beeter way, there just has too [just kiddin']!
I didn't quite follow what you meant there, Tom. Moving the shock mounting position is really only to soften or harden the damping a little.


Quote:
The height; I just don't buy! The ride height is adjusted through the resetting of the shock collars/thumb screws. If the droop is affecting your ride height, something is not right, or more times than not, too extreme
Exactly! Your almost there in your understanding. The droop is now affecting your ride height, as you set your droop for much bigger tyres. Now the tyres are really small, you have to put so much pre-tension on the springs that by the time you have achieved your desired ride height, the droop screws are hitting the chassis (i.e. the pre-tension on the springs is now so great that the suspension arms are pushed down far enough that the droop screws hit the chassis).
Now what you say above is absolutely true: The droop is affecting the ride height and therefore is wrong.
Now you have to adjust the droop to compensate for the smaller tyres.
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Old 09-06-2004, 08:43 AM   #8816
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Settings and set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by theisgroup
it is not that the droop affects the ride height. It is that the ride height affects droop. As you adjust the screws on the shocks as Mark said you are effectively increasing the preload on the shock and reducting the amount the the chassis can travel. So you would have to increase the travel or on a guage (reduce the droop). That is actually one of the problems with using the guages to set droop. The guage only takes into account the chassis bottom and does not take into account the preload of the shocks. Or in other words the guage assumes that the ride height is always static.
Yep, using the gauge only gives a kind of ballpark figure - it is an accurate measurement, but it only has meaning when related to a particular tyre diameter. A setup which states the droop without stating the tyre diameter is not particularly useful - except for rubber tyres which don't change diameter enough to effect the droop setting.
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Old 09-06-2004, 08:46 AM   #8817
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom G
Thanks. Mark has a really good response but I can't help but play devil's advocate for a bit!

^5
Completely justified in playing the role - if you haven't fully understood what I'm writing, either I don't know what I'm on about or I haven't described it well enough.
Further questions reveal which of the two it is
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:07 AM   #8818
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Default markp27

those three statements were completely false in almost everyway. im not trying to start a war but the way you set up your car is ride height first by adjusting shock collars then droop. droop is only there to limit the amount the arms will travel downward thus why they call it droop. in no way do you need tire diameter to put somones setup on your car, whether you have 60mm to 56mm foam tires you can acheive the same setup either way.
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:29 AM   #8819
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I'm gonna have to agree with goop. When the the tire changes due to roll out, the droop still remains the same, it's the ride height that changes. Besides, droop is measured with the tires off to get an accurate measurement.
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:31 AM   #8820
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Default Re: markp27

Quote:
Originally posted by goop
those three statements were completely false in almost everyway. im not trying to start a war but the way you set up your car is ride height first by adjusting shock collars then droop. droop is only there to limit the amount the arms will travel downward thus why they call it droop. in no way do you need tire diameter to put somones setup on your car, whether you have 60mm to 56mm foam tires you can acheive the same setup either way.
First of all we are talking about having to reset the droop as the tyres wear - you are talking about setting up a droop as part of the setup - please don't dismiss my comments without understanding what we are talking about here.

Also we are talking about taking a dropp measurement with a droop guage and therefore the tyre diameter is very important as the droop measured by the guage is relative to this.

Last edited by markp27; 09-06-2004 at 09:36 AM.
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