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Old 08-15-2004, 05:37 PM   #8476
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Default Up/Down stop travel

I found that when the shocks are on the car and I go to set the up & down stops, the down stops aren't the issue. The shock travel does not hinder the downward travel of the suspension arm.

When setting the up stops, I find myself "holding the chasis onto the blocks" because the tension is so great [while placing the gauge beneath the wheel hub (in my case, the pivot ball suspension hub...one day I'll upgrade to c-blocks, I promise).

While I awaited opinions, I was going to simply note travel with and without the shocks and do a comparison [haven't quite got to it yet, since I decided to run it instead of questioning it...]

Glad I asked, sort of. Nice to know my quest for knowledge isn't being wasted [not that I'm looking for the ultimate truth or anything] but would hate to start a "great debate" [give me your thoughts, just don't start duking it out in the parking lot ].
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:57 PM   #8477
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actually tom, with the pb and the long arm c-hub suspension, you should not have a problem using block to set droop. it is only with the short arm that the twisting is in effect.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:13 PM   #8478
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Performance/Set-up questions: Evo2 w/ pivot ball-long arm suspension

Ok, I ran the 'ol Evo2 and came across a couple of things.

First things first; the front tires are coning whereby the inner portion is wearing more than the outer side of the tire [by about .25mm difference]. It turns on a dime and gives you change [not pushing at all] with moderate on-power speed entering and exiting. Do I adjust the camber to wear evenly first, or try the caster first [front end specs; toe out 1.5, camber -1, caster 6, shocks with violet springs and AE 35 wt oil, height 4.5, Jaco 28mm dbl purple @ 59mm, diff-loose]?

Second, exiting on wide, sweeping turns, the rear end doesn't kick itself loose but I think it could be sliding. Added some tangerine additive and seemed to do a lot better [but comparing some of the speed others and going in, through and out of the turns, I think I could set it up a bit better (rear end specs; toe in 1.5, camber -1, wheel base 257, shocks with violet springs and AE 35wt oil with #7 upper shock position and #2 lower shock position, height 5.0mm, Jaco 28mm purple @ 59mm, diff-loose)].

Lastly, going into a long, fast straight, the car's rear end seems to want to go from side to side [almost looks like going into a turn with too much speed and then, it shifts direction]. Once I see it coming, I settle myself down, then the car behaves a bit more predictable. Could it be my [anxious] acceleration or a setting issue [there is about a .5degree of play on the front end steering linkage I haven't been able to resolve and have concluded (after replacing every single associated part with new ones) that the play is coming from the ball-end/ball joint (you can actually feel/see it)].

The track [Mike's in Carrolton, TX] is considered a medium to high bite ozite track and mixed technical, or so I've been told [not enough experience yet to make determinations of my own].

Thanks gang!
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:21 PM   #8479
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Quote:
Originally posted by theisgroup
actually tom, with the pb and the long arm c-hub suspension, you should not have a problem using block to set droop. it is only with the short arm that the twisting is in effect.
Thanks.

I find myself holding the car onto the blocks as I set the up travel but not seeing flexing or bending of the suspension arms [this is what really prompted my trial]. Almost as though I'm pushing the tension of the shocks/springs to its limits.

^5
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:12 PM   #8480
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tom,

on your setup, the 1 degree of toe in the rear is what you are seeing in the straight. With that little of a slip angle, anything will move the car in another direction in the rear. Alot of the fast guys like the reactiveness of that setup, but you may want to go to 2 degree and see if that will settle your car down.

on the coning, I am not that versed in the PB setup, but I believe that you will probably want to get to almost if not 2 degree of camber. Basically, caster is just the change in camber as the wheels are turned right of left, since you said the car is setup well and takes corners well, then camber will give you more bite through the whole corner, so you maybe able to increase your corner speed. If you need more turn in then caster would help.

Also, at mike, I know the guys are using purple and plaid, but that is with the trc's, I think with jaco, that maybe too hard of a compound. With the purple jaco setup, you will probably need to add some traction compound untile the tires heat up. One of the reasons that the guys usually take a full lap before the start of the race. It warms up the tire and take the slippery fealing out of the tires when you first put them on the track.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:23 PM   #8481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom G
Thanks.

I find myself holding the car onto the blocks as I set the up travel but not seeing flexing or bending of the suspension arms [this is what really prompted my trial]. Almost as though I'm pushing the tension of the shocks/springs to its limits.

^5
i guess i am not understanding your problem. Can you explain how you are checking up travel?
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:35 PM   #8482
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Default Up travel

With shocks, on the blocks I set the gauge beneath the hub and keep lifting the hub with the gauge and keep going up until the the the arm no longer can go upward [this is what I understood from the Hudy directions on their set-up board instructions].

In my case, the arms can travel further upward but the shock and/or spring tension cause the chasis to lift on that side, causing me to keep my fingers on the bulkheads to maintain the chasis squarely on the blocks.

It's more of an issue on the front than the rear end.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:43 PM   #8483
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Quote:
Originally posted by theisgroup
tom,

on your setup, the 1 degree of toe in the rear is what you are seeing in the straight. With that little of a slip angle, anything will move the car in another direction in the rear. Alot of the fast guys like the reactiveness of that setup, but you may want to go to 2 degree and see if that will settle your car down.

on the coning, I am not that versed in the PB setup, but I believe that you will probably want to get to almost if not 2 degree of camber. Basically, caster is just the change in camber as the wheels are turned right of left, since you said the car is setup well and takes corners well, then camber will give you more bite through the whole corner, so you maybe able to increase your corner speed. If you need more turn in then caster would help.

Also, at mike, I know the guys are using purple and plaid, but that is with the trc's, I think with jaco, that maybe too hard of a compound. With the purple jaco setup, you will probably need to add some traction compound untile the tires heat up. One of the reasons that the guys usually take a full lap before the start of the race. It warms up the tire and take the slippery fealing out of the tires when you first put them on the track.
I'll try the camber change first and look at caster should I see a difference in steering/handling up front.

I started with -2 toe on the rear and experimented with -1 and eventually -1.5. Guess I'll go back to -2 and stick with it [was attemptting to lessen the friction created in the search of efficiency].

I inadvertantly ordered dbl ppls for the front although plaid was suggested as a good starting point. I'll get a set of plaid with ppls for the rear my next time out and see if ther's a difference [I'm just too happy not having to replace chunked tires, so I running them as long as they'll last...]

Theis, thanks!
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:50 PM   #8484
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If you want to check to make sure that the suspension would have the same up travel, I would think you would not have the springs on. you are basically checking tavel and not spring tension. If you want to test spring compression, you would probably need to us a sping compression guage like the integy one.

So I would check uptravel without springs. And since shocks really control speed of suspension travel, weather you leave the shocks on or take them off should not matter. unless you are bottoming out the shock.
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:44 PM   #8485
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Cool [it's easier too, so I won't complain too much either..LOL].

Thanks for the time.

^5
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Old 08-15-2004, 11:49 PM   #8486
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Hi I'm a new T1 owner and will be lurking here reading up on this car. I have a question , can anyone tell me what parts I would need convert my chassis to short arms? Thanks, Deves
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:17 AM   #8487
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Rear toe in
I tryied running 1 degree & it was awfull,then a experience x-ray driver told me allways stay at 3 degree
Does any one else go this way as well? this is on asphalt with rubber not them spongy looking things(foams)
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:12 AM   #8488
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I think whatever setting you are using, the most important thing is how comfortable you are with it. A responsive set up may be to hard for an old man like me but easy to a teenager.

However, feel free to try other's recommendation to explore your limit. It shall not hurt except your bankbook in case you break your car during your try . This is RC.
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:43 AM   #8489
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Quote:
Originally posted by MR JOLLY
Rear toe in
I tryied running 1 degree & it was awfull,then a experience x-ray driver told me allways stay at 3 degree
Does any one else go this way as well? this is on asphalt with rubber not them spongy looking things(foams)
I know what you mean. My V1RR loves 3in on the rear and nothing else. I was just experimenting around and looking for efficiency by cutting friction.

I rather use foams, since I get a better response and can use them run after run until they wear down to 56mm, if not more. Have managed to keep them from chunking so far [can't say that with the nitro though ].

^5
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:45 AM   #8490
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Quote:
Originally posted by kennykay
I think whatever setting you are using, the most important thing is how comfortable you are with it. A responsive set up may be to hard for an old man like me but easy to a teenager.

However, feel free to try other's recommendation to explore your limit. It shall not hurt except your bankbook in case you break your car during your try . This is RC.
Yeah, RC=lots of $$$ with few missed meals to make ends meet [ok, ok, ... to buy more goodies!]

^5
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