R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-30-2010, 02:48 PM   #916
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heretic View Post
Hi escman and/or Novaktwo

I am in the process of setting up a 2s kinetic for my buddy who can't read english ;-). We have an indoor race coming up next week ( temporary track) and no time to fiddle around for 30 runs to try and figure out what to do.

I have been through the last 20 pages of this thread and haven't been able to find a consistent starting point for 10.5 rubber TC. My buddy is a very skilled driver (I never say that, seriously) so he doesn't want the least HP left on the pit table.

Soooo : here is all the relevant info I can gather

Straight :20-25 meters ( 60-75 feet)
Carpet, medium grip, MM32 tires
usually the layout is really tech in the infield.
Motor is Orion 10.5, 2s obviously

What would be a decent starting point? Not the absolute best but a guarantee not to ruin the first race of the winter season by being lost in the ESC settings. He's coming from a SPX as a previous ESC so he'd like something that at least matches that... for starters ;-)

The info required :

starting FDR (8-ish ?)
Boost mode : off or on ? Delay ?
timing set point
max timing RPM
Timing level
drive frequency

The timing RPM default presets are very puzzling : the preset for 10.5 and 2s indicates Start 2000 Max 4000 which is inconsistent with the advised 4000 RPM gap that you're supposed to have between the two.


Thanks for your help.

PS we want info and not opinions here, so if anyone wants to chime in be welcome, as long as you have a respectable amount of experience with this ESC. This post is supposed to be for the Novak staff mainly. Thanks.
A quick intro of who I represent , I am the Novak UK onroad Team Manager and worked with novak on the R+D for the kinetic, the info I am about to give you is tailored specifically to 10.5 rubber touring , car weight 1350g , without using novalink, which is the easiest way for a new user to programme without getting cfg files, here is our reccomendation for on board programming method by way of a 17 digit number. 111881411363112_1 where the _ relates to the hall sensor field and as such has no value, default in kinetic is shown in instruction booklet, enter the number in the 17 fields in the order as the instructions , you only need to change the fields that differ to the grey default values in the manual, with 30 deg static timing in motor and geared at 7.5 overall ratio for indoor. We obviously use the ballistic 10.5 , but that speedo setting is very agressive and has been used to great sucess at the UK nationals, lapping to within half a second of the top modified unlimited supertouing class on some circuits, and powering three of our drivers into overall top ten positions, almost winning outright in the drivers championship but winning the team title. Be sure to watch your motor temps. Ballistics to be kept below 90c .! This setting will be very fast but smooth to drive with nice feeling brakes I can assure you of that. Way faster than any any spx can manage, and better than anything else. Gm,Speedpassion or Tekin, with excellent launch and zero cogging. Keep us posted as to how you get on with it.
Steve
Steve UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 03:32 PM   #917
Tech Regular
 
bvalistic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: long beach ca
Posts: 453
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default pm

sir , you have pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Today, we have added the Kinetic Upgrade options to our ESC Trade-In Program:

TeamNovak ESC Trade-In Program

Novak customers can return any speed control we have ever offered---brush or brushless---and upgrade to either our Kinetic 2S or our Kinetic 1S. If you wish to add a NovaLink, see program details.
bvalistic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 10:11 PM   #918
Tech Initiate
 
JBM Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve UK View Post
A quick intro of who I represent , I am the Novak UK onroad Team Manager and worked with novak on the R+D for the kinetic, the info I am about to give you is tailored specifically to 10.5 rubber touring , car weight 1350g , without using novalink, which is the easiest way for a new user to programme without getting cfg files, here is our reccomendation for on board programming method by way of a 17 digit number. 111881411363112_1 where the _ relates to the hall sensor field and as such has no value, default in kinetic is shown in instruction booklet, enter the number in the 17 fields in the order as the instructions , you only need to change the fields that differ to the grey default values in the manual, with 30 deg static timing in motor and geared at 7.5 overall ratio for indoor. We obviously use the ballistic 10.5 , but that speedo setting is very agressive and has been used to great sucess at the UK nationals, lapping to within half a second of the top modified unlimited supertouing class on some circuits, and powering three of our drivers into overall top ten positions, almost winning outright in the drivers championship but winning the team title. Be sure to watch your motor temps. Ballistics to be kept below 90c .! This setting will be very fast but smooth to drive with nice feeling brakes I can assure you of that. Way faster than any any spx can manage, and better than anything else. Gm,Speedpassion or Tekin, with excellent launch and zero cogging. Keep us posted as to how you get on with it.
Steve
Boost set to max and timing starting at 4000RPM, if I was using the Novalink software what end RPM should I use?
JBM Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 03:30 AM   #919
Tech Master
 
heretic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: europe
Posts: 1,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve UK View Post
A quick intro of who I represent , I am the Novak UK onroad Team Manager and worked with novak on the R+D for the kinetic, the info I am about to give you is tailored specifically to 10.5 rubber touring , car weight 1350g , without using novalink, which is the easiest way for a new user to programme without getting cfg files, here is our reccomendation for on board programming method by way of a 17 digit number. 111881411363112_1 where the _ relates to the hall sensor field and as such has no value, default in kinetic is shown in instruction booklet, enter the number in the 17 fields in the order as the instructions , you only need to change the fields that differ to the grey default values in the manual, with 30 deg static timing in motor and geared at 7.5 overall ratio for indoor. We obviously use the ballistic 10.5 , but that speedo setting is very agressive and has been used to great sucess at the UK nationals, lapping to within half a second of the top modified unlimited supertouing class on some circuits, and powering three of our drivers into overall top ten positions, almost winning outright in the drivers championship but winning the team title. Be sure to watch your motor temps. Ballistics to be kept below 90c .! This setting will be very fast but smooth to drive with nice feeling brakes I can assure you of that. Way faster than any any spx can manage, and better than anything else. Gm,Speedpassion or Tekin, with excellent launch and zero cogging. Keep us posted as to how you get on with it.
Steve
MMkay, thanks a million for the quick answer.
I am not sure to understand where to enter the 17 digits you gave me? If I understand well, that is a digit-string that avoids mentionning every single parameter I could want to alter ? I will go throught the manual again to see if I can get a better understanding. Thanks again for your help.

maxime
__________________
I love wedge bodies. I love dish wheels.
heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 04:16 AM   #920
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM Racing View Post
Boost set to max and timing starting at 4000RPM, if I was using the Novalink software what end RPM should I use?
When programming using novalink, we currently set the end rpm to the recommended 2500 stagger for 10.5 , (a larger stagger is used with a different profile for the lower winds).
The full timing will be applied at 6500 if start is set to 4000, this gives the car chance to start the lift from the corner on no applied timing other than the 30deg on the motor, as apex rpm's on tight hairpins are usually about 2500/3000 , once the car is exiting the corner the dynamic timing is being applied and is fully in by 6500 rpm, the car will have lots of rip, even on short straights, ie indoor.

Steve
Steve UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 05:55 AM   #921
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by heretic View Post
MMkay, thanks a million for the quick answer.
I am not sure to understand where to enter the 17 digits you gave me? If I understand well, that is a digit-string that avoids mentionning every single parameter I could want to alter ? I will go throught the manual again to see if I can get a better understanding. Thanks again for your help.

maxime
To clarify a little for you.
The 11th digit in the long number is 6, the 11th adjustable parameter with on board programming is brake end point which default value is 10=100% of brakes available, as 6 is the 11th number in the long number I gave you enter the value of 6 light flashes in the 11th parameter, this will allow you 60% max brakes at full stick travel. This gives much nicer feeling brakes over the full stick travel but still more than enough to stop quick. If you check which of my 17 digit numbers are different to the grey ones in the instructions , you'll be able to work out which you need to adjust.

I hope this makes things a little clearer for you.

Steve
Steve UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 06:54 AM   #922
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 86
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

A programming question please. Also, please dont kick me out of here for asking this, or hunt me down and beat me, even though I deserve it.

Lets say a person is using timing advance and/or boost an dis happy with the way the system is working. You then decide to run the car/truck in the front yard where reverse is a handy option. If reverse is enabled, does the timing still kick in at the specified rpm's, or is it disable in reverse, or does it even matter?


Ok, I'll go away now......LOL
rcannon409 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 07:03 AM   #923
Tech Addict
 
Skitee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 745
Default

If you read the Kinetic manual you'll see it says that timing advance is only active in the counter clockwise rotation direction and not in clockwise rotation.
__________________
Xray T4 2018 ~ HobbyWing Xerun XR10 Pro ~ Motiv RC 4.5
Xray X12 2018 ~ ORCA Vritra VX3 1S ~ Speedzone 4.5

POWERED BY SPEEDZONE USA
Skitee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 07:50 AM   #924
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve UK View Post
When programming using novalink, we currently set the end rpm to the recommended 2500 stagger for 10.5 , (a larger stagger is used with a different profile for the lower winds).
The full timing will be applied at 6500 if start is set to 4000, this gives the car chance to start the lift from the corner on no applied timing other than the 30deg on the motor, as apex rpm's on tight hairpins are usually about 2500/3000 , once the car is exiting the corner the dynamic timing is being applied and is fully in by 6500 rpm, the car will have lots of rip, even on short straights, ie indoor.

Steve
When testing my motor with a data logger the rev range seems to be from 0-20,000RPM. From actual running I've found the motor to bog down if the start and end timings are too low.

I've been advised by various people to widen the RPM range to something more like 7,500-20,000. Even on the slowest corner on our track the motor is running at 5000 RPM so your suggested settings would be throwing 55* of timing at a motor that is still spooling up and will reach top revs around 20,000. If the end RPM is 6,500 what happening for the other 13,500?

Are such low timing points really the best bet? It seems that you will just be running the motor at 30* on the can plus 55* dynamic advance pretty much 100% of the time. Won't this just create more heat, surely the rev range should be wider and the end RPM set much higher?
dvaid852456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 04:00 PM   #925
Tech Initiate
 
JBM Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvaid852456 View Post
When testing my motor with a data logger the rev range seems to be from 0-20,000RPM. From actual running I've found the motor to bog down if the start and end timings are too low.

I've been advised by various people to widen the RPM range to something more like 7,500-20,000. Even on the slowest corner on our track the motor is running at 5000 RPM so your suggested settings would be throwing 55* of timing at a motor that is still spooling up and will reach top revs around 20,000. If the end RPM is 6,500 what happening for the other 13,500?

Are such low timing points really the best bet? It seems that you will just be running the motor at 30* on the can plus 55* dynamic advance pretty much 100% of the time. Won't this just create more heat, surely the rev range should be wider and the end RPM set much higher?
I am really interested in this area of discussion, I too have been struggling with how to set the rev range. Seems at the track higher RPM end point means less temp and less punch. Can anybody answer the above post, look forward to some good reading.
JBM Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 04:27 PM   #926
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM Racing View Post
I am really interested in this area of discussion, I too have been struggling with how to set the rev range. Seems at the track higher RPM end point means less temp and less punch. Can anybody answer the above post, look forward to some good reading.
Me too, it seems like a bit of a black art. I used 55* timing with RPM start 9100 GM 10.5 geared at 6.4 when I first had the ESC and everything seemed awesome, very fast. But with no lack of performance the car stopped after 2 minutes and the motor windings had melted - 110 *C and a dead motor???

Since then I've tried to stay conservative as I'm afraid of melting another motor. It seems that to be able to get near modified performance you will be killing motors. Some people I race with regularly get their motors up to the high 90's. I'd be happier sticking at 80*C but is it just the way stock racing is going. Back to the squeeze every ounce out of kit and bin it after 2 race meetings?
dvaid852456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 04:34 PM   #927
Tech Initiate
 
JBM Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvaid852456 View Post
Me too, it seems like a bit of a black art. I used 55* timing with RPM start 9100 GM 10.5 geared at 6.4 when I first had the ESC and everything seemed awesome, very fast. But with no lack of performance the car stopped after 2 minutes and the motor windings had melted - 110 *C and a dead motor???

Since then I've tried to stay conservative as I'm afraid of melting another motor. It seems that to be able to get near modified performance you will be killing motors. Some people I race with regularly get their motors up to the high 90's. I'd be happier sticking at 80*C but is it just the way stock racing is going. Back to the squeeze every ounce out of kit and bin it after 2 race meetings?
Whats your end RPM?

I have been running 10.5T LRP X12 8000-28000 RPM, 55* timing no boost, with 7.6 ratio, motor @ 80 Deg C Keeping up with the good guys. But I think the end RPM is important, it seems the lower it is the more rip you have but more temp.
JBM Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 09:38 AM   #928
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 232
Default rctvlive.com

Hi Guys,

I saw it on rctvlive.com and have just a couple of questions.
The pc novak link looks just like a regular usb cord is that correct? Can I use one that I already have?
will novak have updates on software like tekin does now? Can i get it for free?

thanks
microcrazy24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 09:49 AM   #929
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Our NovaLink programming device is specific to our Kinetics; this cord/program is (esc) microprocessor-dependent. We are working on V 1.4 now---upgrades are free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by microcrazy24 View Post
Hi Guys,

I saw it on rctvlive.com and have just a couple of questions.
The pc novak link looks just like a regular usb cord is that correct? Can I use one that I already have?
will novak have updates on software like tekin does now? Can i get it for free?

thanks
Check out our October program:

Purchase a Kinetic (1S or 2S) between October 1-31, 2010 and receive a NovaLink™ Programming Interface Free of Charge!
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 02:40 PM   #930
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 958
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Can the 2s speedo be used in 1s classes? What needs to be done to make it work?
__________________
Former fast guy just trying to keep up......
Jamie Hanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dyno, Homemade, Using a Novak Sentry Data Logger, Continued, The Experimental Thread. John Stranahan Electric On-Road 344 12-30-2016 05:22 PM
Novak Kinetic racer1812 Radio and Electronics 254 02-04-2013 08:52 PM
Novak Sentry as Brushless Dyno mattnin Electric On-Road 132 01-29-2010 05:53 PM
2009 i-hobby show b-man777 Electric On-Road 7 10-22-2009 09:35 AM
Spintec Battery Manager Erik Jonk Electric On-Road 999 03-26-2009 03:07 AM


Tags
brushless, gtb, novak kinetic, onroad, rc cars


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:31 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net