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Old 09-04-2010, 02:24 PM   #736
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I ran my Kinetic today for the second time in anger - last time out I ran at FDR of 6.9 and I thought it was quick. Today I went to 7.4 and it was fantastic! The FDR for the Kinetic is totally different from other speedos so don't be afraid to experiment if you are comling from other speedos. I had previously run a GM at 5.5 and a Speed Passion at 5.9

PS to Novak - the new 1.3 software is great!
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:38 PM   #737
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Originally Posted by scoyle View Post
I ran my Kinetic today for the second time in anger - last time out I ran at FDR of 6.9 and I thought it was quick. Today I went to 7.4 and it was fantastic! The FDR for the Kinetic is totally different from other speedos so don't be afraid to experiment if you are comling from other speedos. I had previously run a GM at 5.5 and a Speed Passion at 5.9

PS to Novak - the new 1.3 software is great!
Agree 100%. I just walked in to put up something similar.

What aspect makes it so much faster? I'm not arguing, as I know its true, but not sure why?

I played with throttle curves today. Thats a feature full size cars shoudl have, but I woudl settle for my dirtbike having them.
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:44 PM   #738
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Default Novak Timing

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Originally Posted by ed517 View Post
it is my understanding that boost(60 timing) is applied at full throttle after ur set delay. regardless of timing selected and set rpm range. say u set ur speedo at 45timing ur start and end at 5000/15000. once full throttle is applied/after ur set delay the speedo changes the timing to 60 no matter where u are in ur RPM range. so lets say boost kicks in at 12000 rpm it would read like this 45 from 5000-12000 then 60 from 12000-15000. hope that makes sense
Ed517:
You are absolutely correct, our timing algorithm work by reading the motor rpm and calculating timing advance based on that information.
For example if the following setting are used:
Timing = 45 degree
Start rpm = 5000
End rpm = 15000 rpm

Once the motor rpm reaches 5000 rpm the esc applies 2-3 degrees of timing and then ramps up the timing to 45 degree at 15000 rpm.
And as the motor slows down the amount of timing applied is also scaled back.

This algorithm allow for a very smooth application of timing, we use a fairly powerful micro controller running at 50Mhz to dynamically calculate of this information on the fly.
Having said that if you plan to use boost you should set the timing to 55 degree and then the boost will only add additional 5 more degrees and you will not see a huge current spike once the boost comes on.
This also negates the need for boost ramp up time, apply the last 5 degree of timing is quite smooth.
Boost only comes on when full throttle applied and the boost delay time counter reach the set end point.
We allow boost button to be enabled at 20 degree and higher.

I would like to thank everyone on this thread for helping us with all the feedback which helping us in improving our product.

Escman (Novak Engineering)
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Old 09-04-2010, 05:57 PM   #739
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Originally Posted by escman View Post
Ed517:
You are absolutely correct, our timing algorithm work by reading the motor rpm and calculating timing advance based on that information.
For example if the following setting are used:
Timing = 45 degree
Start rpm = 5000
End rpm = 15000 rpm

Once the motor rpm reaches 5000 rpm the esc applies 2-3 degrees of timing and then ramps up the timing to 45 degree at 15000 rpm.
And as the motor slows down the amount of timing applied is also scaled back.

This algorithm allow for a very smooth application of timing, we use a fairly powerful micro controller running at 50Mhz to dynamically calculate of this information on the fly.
Having said that if you plan to use boost you should set the timing to 55 degree and then the boost will only add additional 5 more degrees and you will not see a huge current spike once the boost comes on.
This also negates the need for boost ramp up time, apply the last 5 degree of timing is quite smooth.
Boost only comes on when full throttle applied and the boost delay time counter reach the set end point.
We allow boost button to be enabled at 20 degree and higher.

I would like to thank everyone on this thread for helping us with all the feedback which helping us in improving our product.

Escman (Novak Engineering)
is kinetic have rpm log? That can be read on pc?
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #740
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I'm not doing so well with mine. I ran three packs through it today and all went well.

I decided to try one more evening run. Plugged battery in and that was it. Smoke and black stuff running out of esc. Now, the odds of gettign two bad ones cannot be good, so I wonder what I am doign wrong. Both had 1.3 software and had not been abused, gotten hot, and were not connected to reverse voltage. The motor is a brand new Novak Ballistic 17.5/

Last edited by rcannon409; 09-04-2010 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:00 PM   #741
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Originally Posted by scoyle View Post
I ran my Kinetic today for the second time in anger - last time out I ran at FDR of 6.9 and I thought it was quick. Today I went to 7.4 and it was fantastic! The FDR for the Kinetic is totally different from other speedos so don't be afraid to experiment if you are comling from other speedos. I had previously run a GM at 5.5 and a Speed Passion at 5.9

PS to Novak - the new 1.3 software is great!
This is exactly the opposite of the what I have found. If I gear in the 6-7 FDR range with a 17.5 it just gets too hot compared to the other ESC's I have run. I took ED517 advice and I lowered to 5 on my FDR and the thing is fast out the corners and timing give me plenty of speed down the straight and more than enough rip in the middle. This is with a duo2 motor.
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:50 AM   #742
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Hi Guys,

I gave my Kinetic its first run last week, I was very impressed. Just using the standard settings out of the box the ESC felt very posative and reacted nicely with very little heat stress.

Today after much arm wrestling I've finally managed to update the firmware to v1.3 (here's a tip, run all the .exe's in Compatability mode as XPSP3 if your using Win7, and make sure you wait for Windows to install its drivers for the connector before you plug in the ESC). I like the GUI (much better then the other brand) but I have a question:

Why are the Boost Mode and Boost Delay options disabled? and how do I turn them on?

thanks
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:15 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by nerdling View Post
Hi Guys,
Why are the Boost Mode and Boost Delay options disabled? and how do I turn them on?

thanks
You need at least 20 degrees advance before boost will be enabled.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:47 PM   #744
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Default RPM Logging

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is kinetic have rpm log? That can be read on pc?
Currently Kinetic speed controller does not log rpm data, we only log motor and speed control power board surface temperature.
The motor temperature sensor is mounted on the Hall sensor board so its monitoring the temperature inside the motor and not the winding temperature Inside the motor coils maybe 20-70 degree higher then the sensor board temperature.
If you heat the motor up fast and you get a motor temperature reading of 170 degree F the windings may actually be 220 - 250 degree F.

On power up we also log the battery voltage but this data is not available for pc download.

One design challenge is that some of the very fast frame rate transmitters send PPM information to ESC at a frame-rate of 3 milli seconds and flash memory devices require at least 5 milli seconds to write logging data, so we have to overcome some these timing issues.

We have discussed adding more parameters for logging but that will be in future updates ( may require hardware update also) as we use an external flash device for data storage and the amount of data storage is limited by the size of the memory device and not limited to the micro-controller, so we have plenty of room to grow in Kinetic design platform.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:37 PM   #745
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Originally Posted by macdude View Post
This is exactly the opposite of the what I have found. If I gear in the 6-7 FDR range with a 17.5 it just gets too hot compared to the other ESC's I have run. I took ED517 advice and I lowered to 5 on my FDR and the thing is fast out the corners and timing give me plenty of speed down the straight and more than enough rip in the middle. This is with a duo2 motor.
Macdude, Scoyle is running 10.5. so gearing is alittle different. lol
from my personal testing, a good starting point for your FDR:
17.5-5.0
13.5-6.0
10.5-7.0
there are too many variables for this to be the "GOLDEN RULE" but it is a good starting point(for TC classes) i will tell you this. the kinetic and ballistic combos like a high and tight rpm range....
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:03 AM   #746
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You need at least 20 degrees advance before boost will be enabled.
that would fit I'm running 10 at this point.

Thanks
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:01 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by ed517 View Post
Macdude, Scoyle is running 10.5. so gearing is alittle different. lol
from my personal testing, a good starting point for your FDR:
17.5-5.0
13.5-6.0
10.5-7.0
there are too many variables for this to be the "GOLDEN RULE" but it is a good starting point(for TC classes) i will tell you this. the kinetic and ballistic combos like a high and tight rpm range....
Typical me - forgot the key point that I was running 10.5 :-)

Ed517 - what is your latest thoughts on 17.5 as we are running a stock championship indoors... is it the same settings you posted a few pages back?
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:55 AM   #748
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Brilliant!

Less than ideal racing conditions on Sunday, very cold and a greasey track from intermitant showers but I was only 3 seconds off my PB!

I was using:

FDR 6.94
Timing 35
Start RPM 7500
End RPM 14500
Boost ON
Delay 400ms

The motor was 68 Deg C after 5 minutes so it seems like this is a pretty good starting point.

Now I did find that the car wasn't getting anywhere near top speed by the end of the straight and acceleration could be better in the infield.

After reading about people going as low as 7.4 FDR is my next step to gear down to improve acceleration on the infield and get to top speed quicker on the main straight. This is how I would approach it on my old GTB before I had timing advance.

OR

Do I want to change the timing or alter the start and end RPM's. Is there a danger of gearing too low and damaging equipment even if the performance seems okay? How low do you think it is safe to go on FDR with a GM 10.5?

Last edited by dvaid852456; 09-06-2010 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:04 AM   #749
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Originally Posted by scoyle View Post

PS to Novak - the new 1.3 software is great!
I agree 1.3 software is really good. The motor temp logging feature on the laptop seemed to tally with temp gun readings on the motor even with the GM 10.5.

All the previous issues with the exception of the odd message saying my ESC was not on version 1.3 have been sorted.

I'm hoping for some good weather for the last few rounds of outdoor racing to try and beat my PB. I know the Kinetic can do it.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:56 AM   #750
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Typical me - forgot the key point that I was running 10.5 :-)

Ed517 - what is your latest thoughts on 17.5 as we are running a stock championship indoors... is it the same settings you posted a few pages back?
im assuming the indoors u mean a carpet track, as this plays a roll in track conditions(increases load on mtr during excel. aka less wheel spin) carpet also doesnt have the high surface temps as concrete wich are all factors in how you can sett up your car so i would start here
FDR 5.2-5.4
start 6900(if car boggs raise start and end in small amounts evenly)
end 13800
55 timing boost off(if the stait is short)
mtr timing 32.5(1/2 way to first line)
current limiter 3 (1 and 2 only produce more heat)
thr profile default 2( sometimes i make this more aggrsve)
a large fan will help keep temps in check
our carpet track is currently the pit area for the outdoor tracks. so there hasnt been anywhere to test. anything i can do to help let me know
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