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Old 06-15-2011, 07:17 AM   #1846
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Set your timing to 20 degrees and that will activate boost.
Newman sent me a new power cap, I had one of the reverse wired caps in mine. The new one is the same size as the GTB caps.

My question is the timing set point. I am running a 17.5 motor. It is set to 4000 with max timing at 12000. What are the settings I should be using on this? I am running boost with 20 degree timing.

I believe I would want a lower number for smaller tracks and larger number for larger tracks for timing set point but am not sure.

There is a huge difference between boost on and boost off even at the smaller track where I rarely get to go full throttle. I tried timing the car at 40 degrees there and didn't see any difference between 20 and 40.

Last edited by ss_hobby; 06-15-2011 at 07:30 AM. Reason: info
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:23 AM   #1847
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Use your Boost carefully. It will "melt everything".

I generally do not go out with Boost on until I have a very firm baseline setting.

There are two ways to go about this stuff, use all Timing, or use Timing and Boost together. The Boost is "massive crazy timing".

It is "not" just the remaining timing up to 60 Deg as I was previously understanding. I had a long talk with our engineer and got some clarifications to what "I Thought" was happening.

SO, what I've been doing, is finding a timing setup that works well in the infield but is rather slow down the strait. If the infield power is good, and temps are in reason, click on the boost with a 400-500ms delay. This will give you "only" strait away power is the idea.

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Old 06-15-2011, 11:24 AM   #1848
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RPM range looks about right SS. I've been experimenting with very very high top rpms as well. Lets the motor breath a bit more.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #1849
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it sounds like people are confusing "boost" with "timing" you can run advanced timing without boost turned on. for example, you have your rpm range 4000 to 12000, timing at 40, boost off, the esc with add 40 degrees of timing over the rpm range, now turn boost on, the esc will add 40 degrees of timing over the rpm range and at the end of that rpm "dumped the remaining 15 degrees (max of 55 degrees of timing) all at once.

charlie, did I explain that correctly??

I haven't done off road, but for on road, 45 -50 degrees of timing with no boost works good, Now I'm playing with the boost, trying to find a good rpm range and timing level.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:14 PM   #1850
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Its all good if the programe works. Given up with the Kinetic...after a year of tyring to get it going..
But thanks for ALL the help guys..Its not just for me..

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Old 06-15-2011, 05:07 PM   #1851
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Sorry to hear that Mike.

Sky- I'll email you back on your "super email" and explain.

Boost is not what I explained it as to you at the races. It's a bit different as I tried to post earlier. The It's not really an amount of "degrees". It's just a massive dose of "maxium" timing. Much more then 60, or what ever the remaining is.

What we've been discussing and you've been doing to find a "Timing" setup then adding the boost is the right way to go about it from what I'm seeing.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:21 PM   #1852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
it sounds like people are confusing "boost" with "timing" you can run advanced timing without boost turned on. for example, you have your rpm range 4000 to 12000, timing at 40, boost off, the esc with add 40 degrees of timing over the rpm range, now turn boost on, the esc will add 40 degrees of timing over the rpm range and at the end of that rpm "dumped the remaining 15 degrees (max of 55 degrees of timing) all at once.

charlie, did I explain that correctly??

I haven't done off road, but for on road, 45 -50 degrees of timing with no boost works good, Now I'm playing with the boost, trying to find a good rpm range and timing level.
This seems to work well in off road with a wide rpm range. With boost turned on in off road it likes to pull wheelies or lose traction when the boost kicks in which both make for a tough to control car and slow lap times.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:47 PM   #1853
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Charlie;
Could you answer my "third" e-mail I sent you yesterday.Also will it ever be possible to do just 10% on the boost?
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:24 PM   #1854
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I assume you're Bill Fraden? Emails answered in detail sir. Sorry it took a day or two. It required some explaining that needed more then a few minutes.


Boost is not timing, timing is not boost. They are different features. You are "Not" adjusting the amount of boost.

You are adjusting the amount of timing that is being added. This has nothing to do with the Boost.

Boost is a completely different application of timing that comes on AFTER the timing is applied.

You should not be using boost for your application. None of the oval guys have had any luck doing that. Is very simply, way too much timing.

Regarding Boost in general.

The "terms" used for racing got muddied up, and we mistakenly chose to called our feature "boost", this term is what people use to refer to the basic "timing advance racing". So "our bad" for picking the wrong name for the feature I guess. It's pretty common for people to think they need to use the Boost feature for basic timing advance racing, but well, that's simply not the case at all. We "rarely" use Boost for anything but 12th scale, and TC. The rest, well, it simply doesn't setup or work for the range of the RPM the cars run in. On road has a drastic change in RPM from the slow sections to the straits, so the timing advance is used for the infield, and the boost is only on down the strait, and for a very short time. In oval, it's like your on the strait the whole time, so you don't need boost, you simply use the timing advance.
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:31 PM   #1855
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Yes Charlie- Last month was the first time I've raced oval.I just started and my next race is next saturday. I mainly race on-road WGT. Do you have any recommendations for the ESC set-up. My next race is not till next month indoors on the snowbirds carpet at Minregg.There is no one to ask anything about what to try.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:54 PM   #1856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss_hobby View Post
Set your timing to 20 degrees and that will activate boost.
Newman sent me a new power cap, I had one of the reverse wired caps in mine. The new one is the same size as the GTB caps.

My question is the timing set point. I am running a 17.5 motor. It is set to 4000 with max timing at 12000. What are the settings I should be using on this? I am running boost with 20 degree timing.

I believe I would want a lower number for smaller tracks and larger number for larger tracks for timing set point but am not sure.

There is a huge difference between boost on and boost off even at the smaller track where I rarely get to go full throttle. I tried timing the car at 40 degrees there and didn't see any difference between 20 and 40.

Thanks... prior to reading your reply I tested my buggy (B4.1) and... Novak Kinetic is awesome ! ! ! =D
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:04 AM   #1857
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Thanks guys for all the info. I have been trying to figure all this out without any input and have had some luck so far getting things going.
As far as timing and boost goes, I have been running locally at a very small track that I will need an extra kick to get the buggy over the jumps. When I activated boost it gave me that little extra kick just enough to do what I needed. The temps were fine because I wasn't WOT for more than a second.

Now onto the Regionals, this is a completely different track. RC Aslyum in Waverly, Florida is mainly a 1/8 scale track that they have been using for both. It is a very big track, the straightaway is going to be around 75 to 100 feet long and flat and I will still need that punch to make sure I can make the jumps. They are putting jumps in after corners so I will need torque to make those.

Obviously, I don't want to destroy my electronics and I am going there the week before for the regional warmup race. This will give me opportunity to fine tune some of my settings. From what I am understanding from all of your posts is that Boost is something of last resort. Try maximizing timing before activating Boost and watch your temps like a hawk. I also think it may be a good idea for me to pick up a spare 17.5 in case I screw up.

The series and regionals have changed from last year. I was running 13.5 super stock class last year with alot of success. So at the beginning of the year they decided stock class was 17.5, and I decided I didn't want to go slower so I switched to mod. I had success in running mod in stadium truck and 4wd buggy but although I was making the A main for buggy every race, the top sponsored drivers were taking the first 5 spots everytime. I got tired of getting lapped in the A's. Thats why I switched only my buggy to stock. I am truely amazed at the speed these 17.5 motors can achieve with timing and boost. They are much faster than a 13.5 and can get almost the same lap times as mod when I was running a 7.5. Now everyone in the stock class has a timing and boost enabled esc. This is why I need a good starting point, these guys have been running their escs for almost a year now. I seem to be one of the few drivers that have a Novak Kinetic too, so I don't have a baseline to go from with them.

I think there should be a place where drivers can post thier settings that decribe the track, vehicle and electronics, so we can get at least a starting point. For instance, I placed second with my buggy at the small track and was only beat by the mod guy by 4 seconds. Whatever my setup is would be a great starting point for someone who isn't familiar with small tracks.

Charlie, this is Scott Shearer. I want to make sure you received my last email response.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:50 AM   #1858
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Hi. Just got my Kinetic and am itching to let it rip.

One thing that still confuses me (even though I have re-read the manual several times and gone through most of this thread) is the way the Boost Mode works. Hopefully someone can answer the following questions.

1. When Full Throttle is applied, BUT Boost Delay time is yet to be reached, does the ESC
A: apply normal dynamic Timing Advance up to the point where Boost Delay time has reached, then the ESC INSTANTLY throws in a total of 55 degrees of Boost timing advance? OR
B: Apply normal dynamic Timing Advance up to point where Max Timing RPM is reached, then apply a total of 55 degrees of Boost Timing INSTANTLY (assuming that Boost Delay time has already been fulfilled)

2. Boost Delay: Does the delay control the point at which
A: the Boost Mode STARTS kicking in (in which case how can the rate of Boost Timing advance rate be controlled) OR
B: the point at which full Boost timing (55 deg) is applied (meaning the time taken for the ESC to ramp up the timing to 55 deg EQUALS the Boost Delay time)

I understand that these 2 questions may sound confusing and may overlap each other a bit but any attempts to clarify this for me will be greatly appreciated as i can't think of a good base setup without understanding this part. THANKS.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:56 AM   #1859
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I think Charlie is working on a better/simplier way of explaining it, but off the top of my head, and I could be wrong, boost only comes in after the delay and the rpm setting have been reached.

if your using a novalink, under the window that shows timing level, i.e. 40 or 50 or whatever you put in there, there is button that shows a ramping level, click on that and it will show you at what rpm what level of timing is being applied, you can change that. that is what I've been playing with, I don't have a full time track and the weather sucks so i don't get track time or play time if front of the house so its taking a while to figure it out. I can say that the motor likes a end bell timing of at least 35, and a starting rpm of 6000, doing this the esc doesn't apply to much timing to soon and bog the motor down and create heat.

Scott, I'm thinking 2wd buggy doesn't have the demands of 4wd on road, so you may not get the heat and problems I've seen with using more "boost" I have found that even using aveage setting, say, start rpm 4000, end rpm 12000, timing level 40 and boost on, there is a light switch effect when the boost kicks in. right now I'm playing with 6000 start 16500 end, 45 timing and boost turned on, good bottom end, smooth thru the middle and great top. I'm also finding a higher gear ratio works better also, mid 7.s vs low 6.s but that is with a sedan, hope this helps and good luck at regionals.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:57 AM   #1860
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Timing Advance is "applied" across the Set RPM Range.

So if you have the range set to 5000-15000, and 40' in the box, it will apply 40' across that RPM range.

If you turn the boost On, it will apply ALL THE TIMING (This is not a physical number that I can explain it's just "boost after the throttle is all wide open for the "boost delay" amount of time.

That's it.

Again, DO NOT USE BOOST. You start out with a RPM range that gives you good feel and response, with reasonable temps. If you need strait away speed, you then turn on the boost. That's it.

If the boost kicks in through the entire infield things will get hot.

For the most part, for 17.5 racing, the RPM ranges that are safe start around 4-5K, and finish around 10-15K depending on what you're running. I usually leave the motors around 30' static timing, then us the ESC's timing starting around 40'. If things run well, you can back down motor timing, and up ESC timing slowly.

People, BOOST is a BAD BAD BAD BAD Name for Us to have chosen for our Feature. I am extremly sorry it's this confusing. People call timing advance racing Boosted Racing. This is NOT THE SAME AT ALL. I'll probably keep re posting this same stuff for the next six months, as well, this is a major stumbling block. DO NOT USE BOOST. It's not what you thought....

Scot I got your email. You're right, we need a place for baseline, but well, they are all the same and basically what I have posted many times. Same RPM range and same safe starting points. Safety First has always been my motto.

We'll have a "team profiles" section of the website, you'll be able to actually download popular profiles directly to your ESC and use them.

This is still a ways off in the future.

As always guy, my email is [email protected]. I'll just come out and say it, I can provide you some more detailed information to you applicaitons if you email me directly.
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