R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-26-2009, 10:12 PM   #91
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,772
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

I agree with Ken 100 percent.

Moderate to good drivers without sponsorship will be allowed to compete in a sportsman class but not a faster class if they feel skilled enough to do so with or without sponsorship. But someone that may get a slight break on the cost of motors or batteries or whatever has to be forced to compete in a class they don't feel skilled enough to compete in if they want to come to a roar event from now on.

I feel like attendance is going to be down all around, even more so than before. I know the Roar Onroad nats have been blowing up the last couple years with under 200 entries combined the last 2 years, this should help the situation lol.

For every racer that may come because they are a sportsman probably wont because they cant compete in more than one touring class and wont find it worth it to travel and spend thousands of dollars for 30 minutes of track time you will have 2 that wont come because they will be forced to run in only a class they dont feel comfortable with. Many people that run stock also run the Super stock class just for more track time, this isnt allowed any more.

When attendace is down all around making more rules on top of other rules is going to make it worse than ever.

And if roar isnt trying to kill Foam Tc then why is it stated in the latest minutes.

Touring Car classes will be rubber tire only

While I never plan on putting a 17.5 in any car I ever own, let people make their own choices on running the classes they want. This isn't a club race this is the Roar Nationals why have a sportsman class in the first place?
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 10:34 PM   #92
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I agree with Ken 100 percent.

Moderate to good drivers without sponsorship will be allowed to compete in a sportsman class but not a faster class if they feel skilled enough to do so with or without sponsorship. But someone that may get a slight break on the cost of motors or batteries or whatever has to be forced to compete in a class they don't feel skilled enough to compete in if they want to come to a roar event from now on. They are running the slowest class, but they are getting sponsorships. I realize it has more to do with business than talent, but it's still an advantage

I feel like attendance is going to be down all around, even more so than before. I know the Roar Onroad nats have been blowing up the last couple years with under 200 entries combined the last 2 years, this should help the situation lol. Yet the carpet race gets 200+ entries. Every race has been down and will be down for reasons other than these

For every racer that may come because they are a sportsman probably wont because they cant compete in more than one touring class and wont find it worth it to travel and spend thousands of dollars for 30 minutes of track time you will have 2 that wont come because they will be forced to run in only a class they dont feel comfortable with. Many people that run stock also run the Super stock class just for more track time, this isnt allowed any more.
Run Mod

When attendace is down all around making more rules on top of other rules is going to make it worse than ever. I'm glad someone finally took a stand on this. People who have it in their interests to not like this rule will complain, but as another poster pointed out, it will keep out the former national champions with unavailable equipment.

And if roar isnt trying to kill Foam Tc then why is it stated in the latest minutes.

Touring Car classes will be rubber tire only
Please look at the entries for the Halloween Classic, IIC, etc. The trend is not looking good for foam, ROAR or not.

While I never plan on putting a 17.5 in any car I ever own, let people make their own choices on running the classes they want. This isn't a club race this is the Roar Nationals why have a sportsman class in the first place? This is easily fixed. Mod only what do you think about that?
>>
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 10:47 PM   #93
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,772
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Moderate to good drivers without sponsorship will be allowed to compete in a sportsman class but not a faster class if they feel skilled enough to do so with or without sponsorship. But someone that may get a slight break on the cost of motors or batteries or whatever has to be forced to compete in a class they don't feel skilled enough to compete in if they want to come to a roar event from now on. They are running the slowest class, but they are getting sponsorships. I realize it has more to do with business than talent, but it's still an advantage. People that have more talent have the advantage already dont blame some local guy that isnt really good but a local company will give him motors for cost to get their name out there. Its marketing part of capitalism. Punishing this racer is not the answer and no way to improve the onroad scene

I feel like attendance is going to be down all around, even more so than before. I know the Roar Onroad nats have been blowing up the last couple years with under 200 entries combined the last 2 years, this should help the situation lol. Yet the carpet race gets 200+ entries. Every race has been down and will be down for reasons other than these. Yes this is true but giving intermediate guys with sponsorships the reason not to come is no way to improve this recent trend. Look at stock at last years carpet nats the top 3 mains are filled with people with some sort of sponsorship and I guarantee more than half of them wont be going to another race with this rule in effect.

For every racer that may come because they are a sportsman probably wont because they cant compete in more than one touring class and wont find it worth it to travel and spend thousands of dollars for 30 minutes of track time you will have 2 that wont come because they will be forced to run in only a class they dont feel comfortable with. Many people that run stock also run the Super stock class just for more track time, this isnt allowed any more.
Run Mod. So running sportsman and mod is ok? I dont think it is but I'm not sure on this rule. Having a sportsman run mod is ridiculous.

When attendance is down all around making more rules on top of other rules is going to make it worse than ever. I'm glad someone finally took a stand on this. People who have it in their interests to not like this rule will complain, but as another poster pointed out, it will keep out the former national champions with unavailable equipment. There are more people that are going to complain than sportsman's to make up for the missing entries, this is the roar nationals not a club race sportsman should be left for club races. The worlds doesn't have a sportsman class.


And if roar isnt trying to kill Foam Tc then why is it stated in the latest minutes.

Touring Car classes will be rubber tire only
Please look at the entries for the Halloween Classic, IIC, etc. The trend is not looking good for foam, ROAR or not. That is neither here nor there, the roar president has stated they are not trying to kill Foam, but saying all races will be rubber only contradicts that in every way. I'm just stating the facts here.

While I never plan on putting a 17.5 in any car I ever own, let people make their own choices on running the classes they want. This isn't a club race this is the Roar Nationals why have a sportsman class in the first place? This is easily fixed. Mod only what do you think about that? I think that would be fine, but it would take entries down to the point that only 15 drivers would even show up to any given race. 99 percent of the RC population doesnt feel comfortable racing mod and doesnt want to spend the money on parts tires bodies and everything else that gets destroyed at an exponential rate when running mod. It would basically kill all of onroad racing
On another note I like how I see people posting with conviction in this thread that I have never seen attend a national level race in my life so I take it for what its worth from these people.
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 11:04 PM   #94
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

I really like the Snowbirds approach. Poll the racing community for the most popular 8 classes and then run them. Why do big races have to make a statement with the class selection?

If you want to experiment with an amateur class, you've gotta give the rest of the guys two non-mod classes to run, or the trip isn't worth it.
syndr0me is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:32 AM   #95
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

"
Moderate to good drivers without sponsorship will be allowed to compete in a sportsman class but not a faster class if they feel skilled enough to do so with or without sponsorship. But someone that may get a slight break on the cost of motors or batteries or whatever has to be forced to compete in a class they don't feel skilled enough to compete in if they want to come to a roar event from now on. They are running the slowest class, but they are getting sponsorships. I realize it has more to do with business than talent, but it's still an advantage. People that have more talent have the advantage already dont blame some local guy that isnt really good but a local company will give him motors for cost to get their name out there. Its marketing part of capitalism. Punishing this racer is not the answer and no way to improve the onroad scene

They got 65 guys for an all amateur class for Vegas. For the record, there was 75 guys in 13.5 rubber. That sounds like a good turnout for both classes.

I feel like attendance is going to be down all around, even more so than before. I know the Roar Onroad nats have been blowing up the last couple years with under 200 entries combined the last 2 years, this should help the situation lol. Yet the carpet race gets 200+ entries. Every race has been down and will be down for reasons other than these. Yes this is true but giving intermediate guys with sponsorships the reason not to come is no way to improve this recent trend. Look at stock at last years carpet nats the top 3 mains are filled with people with some sort of sponsorship and I guarantee more than half of them wont be going to another race with this rule in effect.

See above

For every racer that may come because they are a sportsman probably wont because they cant compete in more than one touring class and wont find it worth it to travel and spend thousands of dollars for 30 minutes of track time you will have 2 that wont come because they will be forced to run in only a class they dont feel comfortable with. Many people that run stock also run the Super stock class just for more track time, this isnt allowed any more.
Run Mod. So running sportsman and mod is ok? I dont think it is but I'm not sure on this rule. Having a sportsman run mod is ridiculous.

I guess I didn't understand you, and you didn't understand me. I was assuming you meant people who are going to wind up in 13.5. You meant people who will only run 17.5. Sorry.

There is still 1/12 and WGT if you need more track time. I know, nobody will do this and it's stupid of me to suggest

When attendance is down all around making more rules on top of other rules is going to make it worse than ever. I'm glad someone finally took a stand on this. People who have it in their interests to not like this rule will complain, but as another poster pointed out, it will keep out the former national champions with unavailable equipment. There are more people that are going to complain than sportsman's to make up for the missing entries, this is the roar nationals not a club race sportsman should be left for club races. The worlds doesn't have a sportsman class.

This is where this arguement falls apart. There should just be mod if your statement is to be taken seriously.

And if roar isnt trying to kill Foam Tc then why is it stated in the latest minutes.

Touring Car classes will be rubber tire only
Please look at the entries for the Halloween Classic, IIC, etc. The trend is not looking good for foam, ROAR or not. That is neither here nor there, the roar president has stated they are not trying to kill Foam, but saying all races will be rubber only contradicts that in every way. I'm just stating the facts here.
Unfortunately, it's central to this argument. The reason ROAR is going to rubber tires is that the support for foam racing is dwindling rapidly. There is no reason to have 3 classes of foam tire racing when rubber tires are rapidly becoming the class of choice.

While I never plan on putting a 17.5 in any car I ever own, let people make their own choices on running the classes they want. This isn't a club race this is the Roar Nationals why have a sportsman class in the first place? This is easily fixed. Mod only what do you think about that? I think that would be fine, but it would take entries down to the point that only 15 drivers would even show up to any given race. 99 percent of the RC population doesnt feel comfortable racing mod and doesnt want to spend the money on parts tires bodies and everything else that gets destroyed at an exponential rate when running mod. It would basically kill all of onroad racing

You know that it would kill racing, yet you want to deny a place for drivers to develop skills to race without feeling they have to compete against a company's pocketbook as well. As much as you want to talk about the local guy who gets a deal, there would still be plenty of 100% off guys running 17.5 as well, their choice or not.

What really amazes me is that there was not one peep about only having a 17.5 amateur class in rubber at the IIC, but this ruling by ROAR is an affront to everyone. Rubber looked to be the most popular class at the IIC for TC, and both classes had plenty or racers. The sky is not falling.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:33 AM   #96
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
On another note I like how I see people posting with conviction in this thread that I have never seen attend a national level race in my life so I take it for what its worth from these people.
Maybe there's a reason for that
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:55 AM   #97
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,772
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
"

What really amazes me is that there was not one peep about only having a 17.5 amateur class in rubber at the IIC, but this ruling by ROAR is an affront to everyone. Rubber looked to be the most popular class at the IIC for TC, and both classes had plenty or racers. The sky is not falling.
And the reason for this is there were 4 other TC classes to choose from and people were able to run more than 17.5 amateur only. They were not forced to come to a race to run only one class of Touring if they ran amateur. Scotty isnt closed minded enough to say that if you run Amateur you dont get to run Super stock or mod anything.
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 05:29 AM   #98
Tech Master
 
miller tyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,709
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I think the point some are missing is there are two reasons sponsors choose somebody to represent them, one is driving skill the other is as a good representative of the product, who may eventually develop the skill. I sought sponsorship from companies I already ran and felt comfortable supporting and based my credentials on good product support to fellow racers and an increasing ability record

I like to think I started as the latter and am developing the former. My '09 Nats results 'A' main 10th qualifier and 10th finisher in touring but in 3 years the best I could do in 1/12 stock was 1st in the 'D' main. I'd be happier with a rule that prevented any sponsored A mainer from running that stock class. Not a likely fix but something needs refined in ROAR's approach.

While I might be a ready for T/C foam SS, I freely admit I am not ready for 1/12 SS and both detest and can't drive Rubber (perhaps the 2 are related?). And as pointed out before it ain't worth going to run only 1 class and at that one I am forced to.

And don't even get me started on the genocide of Foam tire.
__________________
Ken Miller
RCTarget - Capricorn - Pro Level RC - MAX Power - Maxima Fuel - EA Motorsorts - TQ Wire

LONG LIVE OPEN MODIFIED
miller tyme is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 07:14 AM   #99
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

I wish we'd call 50% deals something other than "sponsorship." These get thrown around so easily, and not always because of great driving.
syndr0me is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 07:21 AM   #100
Tech Champion
 
MikeXray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 5,749
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default

Its rare that I agree with Fairtrace, but this time I do. I went to the carpet nats for the first time last year and felt that the 17.5 class was well seeded without this rule in place. The sportsman rule would benefit me greatly as I have negative sponsorship, yeah the interest on parts I have to buy A few of my friends and people that I would like to compete against do however have those "low level" deals where they basically get internet pricing direct from the company and I don't see that as an advantage, and I would like to have them in the class. If a company is throwing motors, speedos, tires and batteries at you, you should be well past stock racing. I think companies that offer bonuses for finishing positions to their drivers should voluntarily exclude that for stock classes as well.

I do also want to run 17.5 and 13.5, I did it last year with one car and it worked out well.
__________________
Mike L. Awesomatixusa.com | TQWire.com | Islandraceway.com |JacksonRCracing.com | Horsham RC | Sweepracingusa.com
MikeXray is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 07:59 AM   #101
Tech Elite
 
al dente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,765
Default

very interesting road for raor to take. i will be watching this very closely.

allowing a non sponsored class is good, but banning those same guys from running 13.5 as well is bogus.
__________________
Team CRC / Dumper's Speed Shop / Team Scream Racing / Black Art
RC America / FB/FX / Colorado On Road RC Club
5280 Raceway (5280raceway.com) home of the MILE HIGH INDOOR CHAMPS April 19-22, 2018
al dente is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 08:03 AM   #102
Tech Master
 
komkit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Germantown, America
Posts: 1,789
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to komkit Send a message via AIM to komkit Send a message via Yahoo to komkit
Default

Well, I guess I will have to run 13.5 Expert Rubber then as I have a few dollars discount here and there.

In fact per ROAR meeting min saying :No advertising of RC brand names on vehicles:

On vehicles or a body?? if on vehicles then no one will be allow to run sportsman stock. My servo, RX, Motor, Personal Transponder, Wires even the word "JACO" on the side of my tires sidewall. I can't remove them all too much work as they have RC brand names on them
__________________
CFX Paintworks - The Track
komkit is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 08:56 AM   #103
Tech Elite
 
artwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 3,109
Trader Rating: 62 (100%+)
Default

My mind is spinning on this...

Simply, I think ROAR is heading in the wrong direction here. The amateur only classes need to go, it is a dumb idea and does not help an already struggling on-road racing community. All we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.

All I see is that ROAR is trying to limit the amount of people that will sign up for and attend this race. If ROAR and the host track were smart they would be listening to the feedback and realize that their direction is gonna make people not show up to this race. Unless this gets fixed there is no way that I would spend my money and vacation time on a race like this.

You should be able to run stock and super stock at the Nationals. Nothing like trying to stifle the biggest classes in the US.

Lets be honest these days having a sponsorship does not indicate skill level. Since there are no guide lines that denotes what a sponsorship means then almost every person in RC could be considered sponsored. If anything we should be using past performances to determine if a person should or should not be allowed to run a class. A national ranking system would help this...if you are in the top 25 then no stock racing for you.

I am disappointed that racing has turned into this...so much for a fun hobby.
__________________
Sanwa | R1 Wurks | Avid | 2mm Designs
artwork is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:44 AM   #104
Tech Elite
 
imprsme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Va.
Posts: 3,732
Trader Rating: 74 (99%+)
Default

Whats the old saying "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

R.I.P. TC racing!
__________________
AwesomatixUSA
eXpress Motorsports
imprsme is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 10:19 AM   #105
Tech Elite
 
HarryN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,009
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to HarryN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
My mind is spinning on this...

Simply, I think ROAR is heading in the wrong direction here. The amateur only classes need to go, it is a dumb idea and does not help an already struggling on-road racing community. All we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.
Why should the amateur classes go? That is not fair. I am not anywhere near factory driver quality, but I love racing a lot. I like being competitive because I get nervous sometimes because of how intense the race can be. I like that feeling.

I think killing TC racing would be to exclude amateurs. There are more amateurs than factory drivers, from what I have experienced. Excluding people who are starting up in the hobby and racing is definitely a nail in the coffin for TC competitive racing. I will not win a ROAR event now, but someday maybe. I need more and more experience to get there.

I don't care for sponsorship. But I do enjoy racing a lot. It's fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
You should be able to run stock and super stock at the Nationals. Nothing like trying to stifle the biggest classes in the US.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
Lets be honest these days having a sponsorship does not indicate skill level. Since there are no guide lines that denotes what a sponsorship means then almost every person in RC could be considered sponsored. If anything we should be using past performances to determine if a person should or should not be allowed to run a class. A national ranking system would help this...if you are in the top 25 then no stock racing for you.

I am disappointed that racing has turned into this...so much for a fun hobby.
Isn't that what ROAR is doing? If you won your class last year, you cannot race in it this year? Unless I am missing something here.
__________________
Car(s): Team Losi 22 1/10 Buggy, Team Losi 22 1/10 Stadium Truck
Motors/Engines: SP 13.5 v1.0, SP 17.5 v3.0 x2, RevTech 7.5
Radio: Spektrum DX3R, DX3S
Cars For Sale: FG 08-530 EVO w/ Sport Brakes!
Track(s): http://www.rctrack.com
HarryN is offline  
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
THE TRACK RACEWAY Apex Mid Atlantic RC Racing 28982 12-04-2017 11:08 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:01 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net