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Old 02-18-2004, 05:36 AM   #211
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With regards to specs, as far as width, length, etc. It was clearly stated in the ROAR rules about the class. This of course pertains to the class as it is run here in the states. Read below:

1/10 ELECTRIC ON-ROAD

Maximum length - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 22.05”
Maximum width - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 9.875”
Minimum height - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3” (See Note below)
Wheel base - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 9.0”
Maximum - 11.0”
Minimum weight - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 42.3 ounces (conversion of IFMAR’s 1200gr Wt.)
Wheel diameter - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 1.625”
Maximum - 2.0"
Wheel width - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 0.75”
Maximum - 2.0”
Tire diameter - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Maximum - 2.6”
Tire width - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Minimum - 0.75”
Maximum - 2.0”
Wheel cut out - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - .375” - maximum over tire diameter
Batteries - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 6 cells maximum
Transmission - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 speed only
Rear drive/suspension - - - - - - - - - - - - - Single one-piece drive axle only;
Independent rear suspension is not allowed
Race lengths - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Stock - 5 minutes
Modified - 5 minutes
Bodies - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CanAm, GT, GT-1, GTP, TransAm, and WSC
Tires - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Foam only
Notes - Minimum carpet ground clearance excluding spur gear is - 4mm.
Minimum vehicle height for GT, GT-1, and TransAm is - 4”

I would tend to agree with Boomer that limiting the class to the 200mm pan cars would only exclude manufacturers that already produce the wide 235mm cars. This would not benefit the hobby in general. As stated above, the racer is ultimately the one who will decide what car, motor, cells, body they want to run from what is being offered as far as spec rules go for any given class. So this essentially will take care of itself. The rules are already made and they worked for a long time, so why try to make a change now, with the exception of some minor deviations. The thread started about how we need new rules for 1/10 pan cars is obsolete. The rules already exist and they worked.

Final note: Realize this, full scale racing has made it's developements through the years with technology and changes to make the real race cars handle the way they do. R/C car manufacturers have done the same in terms of scale and the technology available. Wether 200mm or 235mm, when the car was designed, it's what worked. Why change it?
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Old 02-18-2004, 05:38 AM   #212
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On mostly all the tracks here in Florida they will be running -when it comes back the 4 cell version.Because of several,reasons(1) the tracks we run are all electric.(2) the 6 cell versions ran everybody off - the few of us that were left.
The tire wear is what you want it to be. If you cut it down it will be less.As for the 200mm cars the earlier post has many companys that make this car chassis and in 4 cell version. It's the wide chassis that are hard to find.
I will be working on getting something done to re-establish this class soon.To get pan cars going and make everything equal all pan car classes should run 4 cell.(1/12th- 1/10th oval and road course).This is how this will be set-up at the tracks I've contacted and will contact.
As you can see I'm following part of my nickname. Since I've already accomplished all of my goals for this year early so I will work on this.I've got the time and that's part of the job (ROAR region 4 director).
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:26 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry White
Jo Boomer.
I can't think of a real car that is 2,35 meters wide. Real GTP cars are 2000 to 2100 mm wide. So 200 mm in 1/10 scale.

Narrow cars are made by Asso and Corally, where made by Tech Racing and Yokomo had a 4 Cell proto.

If we want to bring back Pro 10 not only in small groups and becomes big again (becouse they look great in 200 mm ), we'll get a world championship again and believe me these eat tires (I only say we should limit the number of tires).

I know Tamiya body have less downforce but I don't say they have to be EXACTLY scaled down. Look at the old Tamiya 1/12 Porsche. It hadn't a separate wing but was (back in 1987) as fast as any other body. BTW a 1/12 HB Ferrari 333 looks quite nice allready. If those flat cooki body's where not allowed nobody would care about a Tamiya racing a body.
Actually the GTP cars were around 2000 mm wide, Jag XJR-14 and Toyota MkIII Eagle for example. Unfortunately 2000 mm is significantly wider than a NEXTEL Cup car. So if we use the Oval cars as a basis for realism, and they're wider than they should be, 235mm is pretty much what a Pro10 car should come in at. Can-AM is what the 12th scalers were modelled after and most of them were EASILY 2350mm wide, so you scale the 1/12th car up to 1/10th and you end up with 235mm. Besides, all 200 mm GTP/GT-1 bodies are rather hideous looking when compared to 235mm GTP. Realism doesn't attract people to a class like Pro 10. SPEED DOES. You want realism? Strap a civic body on a TC and have fun in the street in front of your house. You want max performance? Lay an old HPI Jag XJR-14 body on a nice 235 mm Pan car and peel up some carpet.
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:30 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally posted by BullFrog
On mostly all the tracks here in Florida they will be running -when it comes back the 4 cell version.Because of several,reasons(1) the tracks we run are all electric.(2) the 6 cell versions ran everybody off - the few of us that were left.
The tire wear is what you want it to be. If you cut it down it will be less.As for the 200mm cars the earlier post has many companys that make this car chassis and in 4 cell version. It's the wide chassis that are hard to find.
I will be working on getting something done to re-establish this class soon.To get pan cars going and make everything equal all pan car classes should run 4 cell.(1/12th- 1/10th oval and road course).This is how this will be set-up at the tracks I've contacted and will contact.
As you can see I'm following part of my nickname. Since I've already accomplished all of my goals for this year early so I will work on this.I've got the time and that's part of the job (ROAR region 4 director).
And that's fine. People will race what is offered. If you give the option between stock and mod, the racer has to make that choice himself. I can understand the reasons for limiting certain aspects of a given class,such as cells, motor limits etc. What I do not feel needs to be changed are the rules as written already, with all the talk of scale realism, etc., etc.

Also, does this mean that the 235mm pan cars are excluded from your races?
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:21 AM   #215
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what it really comes down to is each track/club decide how many cells to use.- SPEEDY TC3 i run my 1/12 scale at SOUTH SHORE HOBBIES and have tried to run my 10L3 there with 6 cells(not very sucessfully).i agree trying to run pro 10 with 6 cells at SSH would be insane,interesting but not very practical. on the other hand trying to run pro 10 with 4 cells at a place like Revalation in CA would be a snooze fest. it comes down down to what works in a given set of circumstances. btw are you going to try to get a 1/10 pan car class going at SSH? i am in
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Old 02-18-2004, 09:43 AM   #216
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You're completely right on that, Barry. I apologize. I should have checked my facts first. Just as an example, the MG Lola is 4500mm long by 2000mm wide with a wheelbase of 2750mm.

However, my practical points still pertain - you'd alienate Corally, HPI, Trinity, Yokomo, Speed, etc. because the only cars they build (built, in some cases) were 235.

I would just let it be - once the class gets reestablished, THEN get the manufacturers to go one way or the other.

As far as bodies go - I hate sedans. . .I've ALWAYS loved the sleek, sexy, sensuous (and there is a difference) GTP style cars. . . give me that over a mom-mobile any day!
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Old 02-18-2004, 10:40 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
As far as bodies go - I hate sedans. . .I've ALWAYS loved the sleek, sexy, sensuous (and there is a difference) GTP style cars. . . give me that over a mom-mobile any day!
Amen, Preach that gospel brother Boomer!!!
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Old 02-18-2004, 10:56 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer

As far as bodies go - I hate sedans. . .I've ALWAYS loved the sleek, sexy, sensuous (and there is a difference) GTP style cars. . . give me that over a mom-mobile any day!
That’s one of the reasons why I run the class (the cheaper, faster bit is the other).

I mean, how many of you guys would even want to be seen driving a full-scale Dodge Stratus in “real life” yet Sedan racers want to use them on their “racecars”? Gimme the exotic cars that I can’t have in “real life”!

As far as the 200mm vs. 235mm, 4 vs. 6-cell debate that has overwhelmed this thread the past few days, my take is – who cares! Run what works best in your local area to promote the class. There doesn’t have to be a “national standard” for the class to make it popular locally. Look at the micro class; it is booming and I don’t think any two tracks out there use the same rules. Once the class/type of car is popular again in many localities, a national standard can be adapted/re-adapted for big races without killing it at the local level.

Debating what is “best” for the class overall without factoring in the localization needed to regenerate interest in 1/10th Pan Cars is like putting the cart before the horse.
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:22 AM   #219
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Look what works for your area is fine ( 4-6 cell). As for the rules ROAR still has the rules printed (even in the 2004 rulebook I recieved today).It says a max of 6 cells. I'm using my common sense as oval was dead with the 6 cells.It came back with 4 cell just look at the entries from the birds.Look how many 6 cell were there compaired to 4 cell. The main thing is first to get the class going again. Also if someone wants to enter a race and they show up with a wide car(235) we will let them. There could be the old restriction we had before(depending on the body styles used). We had in place either added weight or spoiler restrictions. Only we never had to use it as there were no wide cars in the series after 2000. Everyone that raced went to the narrow cars.
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:24 AM   #220
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Debating what is “best” for the class overall without factoring in the localization needed to regenerate interest in 1/10th Pan Cars is like putting the cart before the horse.


good point
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:32 AM   #221
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Oh yes the TC bodies we ran were the HPI Mercedes Clk DTM and the Vauxhall Astra. I like the Mercedes best indoors and the Vauxhall outdoors.If protoform still makes the Porsche GT1 (got a brand new one ready to go) and Bolink had the narrow Porsche 962( no more Bolink however).But I've got one of those.
If anyone is interested in a Bolink wide Porsche 962 or Chevy GTP I've also got one of each.
Let's just get the class out of moth balls!
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:34 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
You're completely right on that, Barry. I apologize. I should have checked my facts first. Just as an example, the MG Lola is 4500mm long by 2000mm wide with a wheelbase of 2750mm.

However, my practical points still pertain - you'd alienate Corally, HPI, Trinity, Yokomo, Speed, etc. because the only <A TITLE="Click for more information about car" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>s they build (built, in some cases) were 235.

I would just let it be - once the class gets reestablished, THEN get the manufacturers to go one way or the other.

As far as bodies go - I hate sedans. . .I've ALWAYS loved the sleek, sexy, sensuous (and there is a difference) GTP style cars. . . give me that over a mom-mobile any day!


I don't like the look of the current sedans (or Pro 10 and others) too, just look at my tread: "Verry Important. We Need New Rules". As far as Pro 10 cars, I don't know if Asso still make theirs, HPI does (only in Japan), Corally I think they stopped to and Yokomo is the only one that makes it for sure.

My opinion is. When we want to make a class popular we need to make it better than before and I don't think we can do this by dusting of our old cars put new electronics in it and make them popular again. So we need to make a new thing so everybody gets interessed, old and new racers.

Here are some pics of the 2000 Japanese 200mm Pro 10 class. It was never big becouse it was a local championship that wasn't recognized worldwide.

















Last edited by Barry White; 02-18-2004 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:39 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by sean
Debating what is “best” for the class overall without factoring in the localization needed to regenerate interest in 1/10th Pan Cars is like putting the cart before the horse.


good point
I don't entirely agree with that either. Whether you go with four or six-cells, I think it needs to be standard throughout the country. I mean as a club you're more than welcome to run whatever you want, but in order to bring the class back to the forefront NATIONALLY we need to show a unified presence with one set of rules. A further fragmentation of the class is almost suicidal.
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:48 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry White
I don't like the look of the current sedans (or Pro 10 and others) too, just look at my tread: "Verry Important. We Need New Rules". As far as Pro 10 cars, I don't know if Asso still make theirs, HPI does (only in Japan), Corally I think they stopped to and Yokomo is the only one that makes it for sure.

My opinion is. When we want to make a class popular we need to make it better than before and I don't think we can do this by dusting of our old cars put new electronics in it and make them popular again. So we need to make a new thing so everybody gets interessed, old and new racers.

Here are some pics of the 2000 Japanese 200mm Pro 10 class. It was never big becouse it was a local championship that wasn't recognized worldwide.
Assoc still makes their 10L2 which can be ordered from many places including www.socalrc.com and I believe that Stormerhobbies has them too.

Corally still sells their excellent C10X. It's not very good for stock (it's fairly heavy) but is great for stock.

Yokomo and HPI cars can be acquired.

As far as I know, the Japanese Pro10 are still going strong. It was reported that there were nearly 100 entries in one class alone. .. - Here is a bunch of videos from the 2002 Japanese Pro10 Nationals -


http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72000111.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72000131.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72000141.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72000151.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72000161.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72000171.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72100041.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72100051.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72100101.MOV (start of 1st A-main)
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72100111.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72100121.MOV
http://kimihiko-yano.net/Movie/P72100221.MOV (start of 2nd A-main)
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:48 AM   #225
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If you look at the way classes have evolved over time things will shake out on their own. I remember back with my first HPI RS4 I ran 200mm in electric right alongside the 190mm guys. Eventually 190mm won out and now that's the standard.

Deciding 4 or 6 cell, narrow or wide now before this class really gets going is pointless...let's start running it and see where it goes. I agree a standard should be set but why does it have to be decided universally now?
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