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Old 02-17-2004, 10:01 AM   #181
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Originally posted by CypressMidWest
The argument that the cars are too fast on six-cells is ludicrous. If a tenth pan car on six-cells is too fast, NOBODY would run 1/8th Nitro on-road. I didn't get into this hobby to putter around with an easy to drive car, I got into it because R/C cars are FAST. I'll bet there's a lot of folks out there with the same mentality.
Ian, there is a huge difference between 1/8th scale outdoors and 1/10th indoors.... Can you imagine running Mod Pro10 on the layout at last years Cincy Triple Crown race? Apples and oranges my friend...
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:06 AM   #182
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cyprees i agree with you i am just trying to be polite because if you disagree with the people on here they have a sh!t fit.

the idea of racing is to go as fast as you can with and insanely fast car and learn to drive the car within the limits of its capabilaties . its called car control guys if you want to run four cell because it is easy then go ahead i'll race six cell and if you want 4 cell because its easier then go ahead i'll just lap you 10 times!
guys i have race a wide arrange of cars and the point of racing is to go fast the speed and being able to control it is the fun, most of us that stop racing mod pro 10 because of cost.
so we opted to run stock six cell and the cars were still fast enough to get you in trouble.
as jhon malin said here earlier as i did.
a 12 turn motor limit would be about right and most of the pro 10 guys would be satisfied.
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:07 AM   #183
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greg we are talking about racing outdoors not indoors right now we are trying to put on one event to get the ball rolling!
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:11 AM   #184
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I ran these style of cars from about 88 (or so) until 93...this is a cool class. I tried to run mt old car at RCO in PA around '97 or so, but there wasn't any interest. People loved 12th scalers too much (I agree with them, too... ) If you bring the class back (and I hope you do), I agree with Cypress, 4 cell Pro10 just doesn't make sense.

If you think the cars will be too fast, you can maybe:[list=a][*]Run narrower tires, like sedan tires[*]use bodies that create less downforce[*]put a wind limit on (as discussed)[/list=a]

By using narrower tires and/or less downforce, you put more on the driver and their ability to use throttle control instead of having a motor war. There's no point in running a 9 turn if you can't get it down to the track that way.

One thing that's happened that I've seen is that people don't choose winds by what kind of track they are on as much anymore. If I were running Cleveland with one of these, I would NEVER put anything below a 12 in even if I could make time. It's all about drivability...if you can't control a 9 turn, why put it in? with a Pro10, you have to do this wisely. AT least you did 12 years ago...(ouch, that was hard to type...)
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:17 AM   #185
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they do run a class in japan that uses pancars set up with adapters to use touring car tires and they race them everywhere it actually forces the guys drive to the limit of what the tires handle not the car!.
but hey i say foams six cell and a 12 wind motor with gp3300's yea baybe thats what we talking about!
guys just get the word out and see where we go we need people to start talking about it to their fellow racers.
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:56 AM   #186
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Wonderful discussion! I've wanted the 1/10th Pan Car thread to have a presence on this board for years!!!!!

Just a couple of points.

First, I've run Pro10 for a number of years. Anton can attest to that. I've had just about every kind of accident possible (Again, Anton can attest to that). One could consider me an expert in Pro10 accidents. . .

I have not seen very many blow-overs. In fact, I've seen more blow-overs in stock than I have in mod. SoCal is a great place for blowovers and strange accidents in pan car driving - only because of the banking, poles and the dots. One evening we hear three people "ring" the poles. . .quite funny.

But, driving mod (with 9 and 10turns) I've only seen Colin blow over . . .

I don't think that blowovers are really that big of an issue. The amount of downforce that these bodies produce just makes it something that doesn't happen too much.

As far as bodies - we have had to do some searching, but they do exist. Hotbodies has them, I drive Dahm's Lowla Longtail and LOVE it (don't try the shorttail. . .)

And I tend to use cheap batteries. I paid $59 for my last pack of 3300s. Anton finds deals for us (just looks closer than the rest of us, I guess. . . ) and I haven't paid $100 for a pack for a LONG time.

From a TC and Pro10 driver, I wouldn't drive 4 cell. You'll get TC drivers into Pro10 by making their batteries compatible. You can run a saddle pack in a TC just by laying them end to end. If you run 4 cell, though, TC drivers who might convert are just hosed. They would have to break packs to be dedicated Pan packs or not run pan. . .and we WANT them in the class. . .

Just $.02 from a semi-retired driver.
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:16 AM   #187
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Ok guys, thank everybody who're reply to me, and i still agree with you in this conception but i'm still race now 1/8thIC and i don't think for Pro10, it'll be only a blem of fast because even if you got a modified motor,it still wait on control....Anyway, now i understand your choice to continuous and bring back Pro10 in 6 cell as last century.... Yes it's true ,if we want the sedan drivers comeback as well, it has to be compatible between the class...
So in this way, it's yes to stay on 6 cell....
Oh just, the fast is true and wrong. For me i think each class has its knowledge and take time to go fast as fast...I lear on Pro10 directly and in 3 years compete, i never broke a car or a body, just you should run with your time and don't puch too much the car as for any class...
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:24 AM   #188
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As a Race Director/ Announcer who has had to deal with changing times and trends in the RC industry, (Yes, we are like fashions, we change with the seasons) I think that Tracky is on the right path as far as the classes he is proposing to offer. You will have your purists who will argue their point that running 4 cell with a stock or 19T should be left to 1/12 scale, and the only way to go about it is to run 6 cell in Pro-10.
So it is not a bad idea to offer more than one type of class for the same type of car. We run 6 cell stock/19T and mod touring cars! So what's the difference? People will pick and choose what they prefer to run.
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:29 AM   #189
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Yes as well,you're in the true Speedy
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:48 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer


First, I've run Pro10 for a number of years. Anton can attest to that. I've had just about every kind of accident possible (Again, Anton can attest to that). One could consider me an expert in Pro10 accidents. . .




He can also change a T-bar in right around 10 minutes. Practice makes perfect...
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:05 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Anthony
Ian, there is a huge difference between 1/8th scale outdoors and 1/10th indoors.... Can you imagine running Mod Pro10 on the layout at last years Cincy Triple Crown race? Apples and oranges my friend...
Yes, Oddly I can imagine that. I've done it. Now when you look at Tracks like Scotty's or the Gate, or my old track at Crossroads with a 90' straight, I'm sure you'd agree that a 4-cell 10th scale pan car would be about as much fun to drive as an HPI micro at CORCAR. Obviously, track size is a consideration, so I'm sure you see my point.
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:17 PM   #192
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well guys we are starting to get somewhere now do you guys believe that we keep at a point that we ristrict the amount of tires for the event the type of compound and winds in the motor .
out of curiousity what do you guys think.
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:26 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally posted by SPEEDx971
Eh Hugo, are a competitor in france? And, did you practice 12th?
Yes, I was a corally driver in france, I was at the Pro 10 (C10X)worlds in 1998. Then I stopped in order to study. I'm back in touring with a Yokomo, but a lot of friends of mine want to bring back the pan cars to competition.
I would be very happy if you can help me to find a Switch blade.

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Old 02-17-2004, 12:29 PM   #194
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Speedx,
In the past in Europe, we've tried to do this..and it was a little succes however it was very competitive for all drivers even if there're from factory team or other...Now, me i think,it'll be a good ideas tires but other things i don't really know becauce i never tried it..
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:41 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
well guys we are starting to get somewhere now do you guys believe that we keep at a point that we ristrict the amount of tires for the event the type of compound and winds in the motor .
out of curiousity what do you guys think.
I don't think that restricting the compound will do much except frustrate people. I think you're going to find that most people will be picking the same (or close to the same) compounds.

For instance - at Rev, a guy came with purples saying that was the ideal tire. After getting beaten by everyone else by many laps, he switched to the Pink/Green combo that we were running and was amazed at how wrong he was.

Now - if you limited the tires to Pink, Green or Aqua, you won't get much argument. Those tires seem to work very well nearly everywhere we've driven them - Camarillo, Revelation, SoCal, Hobby-People, LasVegasRCClub, ShowTime (Bakersfield), Speedworld (Sacramento) - all varieties of tracks.

However, if you said Blue or Purple (for some reason, people keep thinking those tires work best with 1/10th - they may work great with 1/12th, or with Oval, but they don't with road-course 1/10th) then you'll lose a lot of people. You'd be legislating away from what works.

I would, also, be wary of legislating tire additives. We've used three, consistently - Paragon (ick), Zip Grip and Coppertone. We use them to tune the amount of grip (Paragon to loosen things a touch, Copper tone to loosen things a bit more or to seal P or Z for a bit more run time). The additives have done NOTHING to affect the track surfaces we've run on, especially when compared to Nitro and the oil it produces.

If possible, I would keep the amount of legislation to a minimum. If you want to use handout motors for stock - that's good. If you want to establish a 10-turn limit (or whatever) for mod - that's fine. If you want to legalize a set of bodies - be open to input, but that's also legitimate.

but handout tires in foam might not be a good idea. Legislating compounds for tires may not be a good idea.

Let's see - that makes $.04. . .

One more thing - be REAL wary of saying anything about the NUMBER of tires. TEST, TEST, TEST before you say that. When we went to the Norrca Nats (2001) at LVRCC we thought we had plenty of tires, but the surface was SO abrasive that we chewed through them like candy. We ended up not practicing because we couldn't afford the tires. The situation at Speedworld was similar, I'm told. Very abrasive. Now - Revelation is the opposite - very tire-friendly. But you won't know that unless you test test test test test - and with multiple drivers. Richard Thompkins is very fast but uses a LOT more tire than does Anton. Anton's tires just last forever. . .
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