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Old 09-21-2009, 01:13 AM   #1
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Default Silver Can versus 21.5 Brushless

Anybody know how closely matched a typical silver can motor is to a 21.5 brushless? I'm currently running silver can in one of our local classes but am thinking of going brushless (at this point, merely for maintenance (or lack thereof)). But I'm hesitant if it won't allow me to be as competitive (yes, the class rules allow the use of either).

Also, is there a good 21.5 brushless that works sensorless. I currently have a Mamba Max ESC and would like to continue to use that so I don't have to drop money on a new ESC as well (though it's in my future plans to get a great sensored ESC)? Would the Duo/Duo2 work with me and my Mamba Max?

Thanks all!
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Old 09-21-2009, 02:38 AM   #2
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hi,

a 21.5 walks all over the 540 by about a second a lap. over here we have done lots of testing on this matter, and there is no way a 540 can keep up. if you have rules that allow both, the pack should be split right down the middle...

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Old 09-21-2009, 03:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by jolson88 View Post
Also, is there a good 21.5 brushless that works sensorless. I currently have a Mamba Max ESC and would like to continue to use that so I don't have to drop money on a new ESC as well (though it's in my future plans to get a great sensored ESC)? Would the Duo/Duo2 work with me and my Mamba Max?

Thanks all!
NO! sensorless only works with low turns motors. Even a 10.5 will struggle to run well sensorless. A 21.5 on a sensorless speedo would be asking for trouble.
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Old 09-21-2009, 12:11 PM   #4
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hi,

a 21.5 walks all over the 540 by about a second a lap. over here we have done lots of testing on this matter, and there is no way a 540 can keep up. if you have rules that allow both, the pack should be split right down the middle...

cheers
Thanks Cribbin! Do you think that increased power would only show up if using Lipo? What if I were using NiMH? I'm trying to prioritize whether to go Lipo first, or 21.5+speedo first .

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NO! sensorless only works with low turns motors. Even a 10.5 will struggle to run well sensorless. A 21.5 on a sensorless speedo would be asking for trouble.
Thanks Pablo! I'll add a new sensored speedo to my list as well .
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Old 09-21-2009, 01:59 PM   #5
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I would ask Castle first, as Im looking at getting a sidewinder for F1, but would also like to run the 17.5-21.5 if F1 goes that way.

I believe the newer updated software might make a difference?
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:47 PM   #6
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Thanks Cribbin! Do you think that increased power would only show up if using Lipo? What if I were using NiMH? I'm trying to prioritize whether to go Lipo first, or 21.5+speedo first.
My suggestion...
Buy two quality Lipo's first (should last you 6mths easy),
Then pick up a 2nd hand LRP sphere + a new LRP 21.5
This combo is most effective at our track still
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:53 PM   #7
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I would think if you keep the 21.5 motor to a one motor rule it should be pretty close in performance. There is alot of silver can voodoo out there to make HP.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:56 PM   #8
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I would think if you keep the 21.5 motor to a one motor rule it should be pretty close in performance. There is alot of silver can voodoo out there to make HP.
Dave
It's not the motor that makes the performance with this 21.5 class, it's the ESC, trust me when I say we have done extensive testing on this!
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:00 PM   #9
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I know what you mean. The new speedo will make anything come alive! From what I saw last year with motors was a Speed Passion 21.5 vs a Novak 21.5 day and night difference. The Speed Passion had a lot of rip!

If it comes down to make the people with the new speedo's change there settings to the first profiles. Rob King has been testing this for the USVTA.

I would love to see a 21.5 Sedan class.
Dave
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:07 PM   #10
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I know what you mean. The new speedo will make anything come alive! From what I saw last year with motors was a Speed Passion 21.5 vs a Novak 21.5 day and night difference. The Speed Passion had a lot of rip!

If it comes down to make the people with the new speedo's change there settings to the first profiles. Rob King has been testing this for the USVTA.

I would love to see a 21.5 Sedan class.
Dave
We run it as a TC class
I've got two set-up's
1/ LRP Sphere with LRP motor... which with the right rollout no one passes on the straight
2/ Tekin RS with Tekin motor which at our home track has passed 17.5's on the straight..."Woohoo"

I'm for not placing restrictions on motor/esc or rollout for this class...
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:29 PM   #11
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My suggestion...
Buy two quality Lipo's first (should last you 6mths easy),
Then pick up a 2nd hand LRP sphere + a new LRP 21.5
This combo is most effective at our track still
Excellent! Thanks FK05 lover. This helps my decision making process tremendously. Now the next thing is just whether to "risk" going cheap from Hobby City or go the quality route (with good support) like SMC/Reedy/etc .

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:25 PM   #12
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We run it as a TC class
I've got two set-up's
1/ LRP Sphere with LRP motor... which with the right rollout no one passes on the straight
2/ Tekin RS with Tekin motor which at our home track has passed 17.5's on the straight..."Woohoo"

I'm for not placing restrictions on motor/esc or rollout for this class...
Cheater cough cough ,lol. Its the third cell that lands the killer blow......
Seriously though,once you go brushless, you'll never use brushed again.
Just charge and go !

The 21.5 is very tractable power. The looser the track ,the closer to 17.5 imho.
I use an SPX and Novak, but will look to getting a Duo 2 in the future.

Buy one DECENT lipo, recharge between rounds. Two cheap lipo packs are no substitute.
I like the Intellect cells best.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:51 PM   #13
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Hobbycity Lipos are no longer on the list of "budget" packs. They simply do not overcharge for the same products. They do have a few products that have poor history, but they do not hide it on the site. Its easy to read the reviews before making a purchase and know you are getting a quality product. On the other hand some companies are STILL charging 3 times as much for customer service, while over and over you see useless packs still showing up.

Check with CC about running the 21.5 on your Mamba Max, I know many of the updates are just for this reason. I have never used more than a 17.5, but I had trouble with older firmware, and great luck with the later versions.
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:23 PM   #14
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Excellent! Thanks FK05 lover. This helps my decision making process tremendously. Now the next thing is just whether to "risk" going cheap from Hobby City or go the quality route (with good support) like SMC/Reedy/etc .
"The joy of saving a few dollars is always overwhelmed buy the sour taste left in the mouth from poor quality"...

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Cheater cough cough ,lol. Do you still have that pinapple?

I like the Intellect cells best...Glad to see you get something right..
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:23 PM   #15
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Don't waste time with a sensorless esc. Once you gear up to be competitive ,
It will cog like crazy , and IF it gets off the mark, you will encounter rotor slip on corner exit.
I have tried !!
As for Hobby City gear, it has its place,just not in RACE cars.
I own some of their lipo packs and they DON'T compare. Sorry.
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