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Old 09-14-2009, 11:22 AM   #121
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The fast guys won again! SUPRISE! LOL

While some may have won using "prototype" speed controls, it is nothing that won't be addressed in one way or another in the future. Either with equalized tech or specifically introduced rules to eliminate any "advantage" that someone may have come up with. In the end fast guys with fast equipment won. Slow guys with fast equipment usually end up in the H or I main(like me). LOL

Just a note: Introducing votage to the motor via booster circuitry and "reciever packs" could only be checked in a brushless system via an O-scope. I didn't see one in the pits so how could someone "PROVE" any advantage? Straight speeds are an indication but are not "Proof".
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:26 AM   #122
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What ever happened to just turning up, having fun and racing?
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:39 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
The thing everyone of you guys miss
is...


The beginner racer ....

He's has to deal with all of this and my money is on the fact that all the new blood on-road has destroy will continue to dry up ...


Beginner's are't gona pay for it if they can't be competitive....

Stock ? Spec ?


Gona die ....


Long live the Mod class's.....
As a new guy to on-road, I call bull . The problem is a simple matter of expectations and education. The real issue is a new guy expecting to be competetive out of the gate.

The first thing you have to do is learn to drive well. Second, learn to setup your car/chassis. Only after those two can you expect to be able to use the "latest and greatest" tech. What good does it do to get all the powerful stuff if you can't handle it? All a newbie would end up doing is breaking his stuff faster and then quitting because he just blew a bunch of money and can't/doesn't want to pay for replacement stuff. You can't just drop a bunch of money and be competetive from day one.

There are enough classes now in many on-road programs where there is a really good progression from novice -> amateur/sportsman -> expert. And the best part is that to make it through novice (and much of the way through amateur), you don't actually have to spend all that much money. At those levels, driver/mechanic skills are going to make a much larger difference than money and the latest-and-greatest gear.

As a techie/geek, I personally _love_ the trend of speedos going the route of updateable firmware paired with computer software. I applaud Tekin for their product (definitely a speedo I want to upgrade to when I'm not such a newb), and I hope other companies catch up. In the long haul, competition amongst these companies will greatly benefit us, the racers.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:52 AM   #124
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jolson ,

hurry up and get that CRC or your gona out luck being the slower car & all ....

O-Wait !
Tekin will fix it soon so they are faster , but then Lrp will throw down their thump card ....

Have fun buying all those speedo's...

talk about Bull ?
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:02 PM   #125
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spec class and set budget limit $ wise, so people can still run different brand equipments and as long as the cost of running car is less than certain $ amount.

just throwing ideas out there:

$ 200 - novice

$ 500 - intermediate

$ 500 plus - pro /advance...
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:08 PM   #126
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jolson ,

hurry up and get that CRC or your gona out luck being the slower car & all ....

O-Wait !
Tekin will fix it soon so they are faster , but then Lrp will throw down their thump card ....

Have fun buying all those speedo's...

talk about Bull ?
Nope, there is _zero_ need for me to buy either one of those speedos . Since I primarily have to work on my driving/setup skills right now, I'm just running an older LRP speedo with a Silver Can in novice, and soon-to-be RCGT/"Scale Spec" at the Hangar.

Even if I did bump up to 17.5 stock, I would still not need the top-of-the-line speedo because there would still be a lot of learning I would need to do before I could actually use that power. My personal opinion is that boost/turbo/timing doesn't mean _jack squat_ if you are still hitting the boards every lap (or every couple of laps).

It's not the destination that counts, it's the journey .

Now, if you are already a racing expert, I can see your point . But I was specifically debating your belief of this killling "new blood" in on-road.

P.S. You should know how bad of a driver I am right now after observing my horrendous driving skills are even in off-road racing novice at TRCR .
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:12 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Advil View Post
The fast guys won again! SUPRISE! LOL

Just a note: Introducing votage to the motor via booster circuitry and "reciever packs" could only be checked in a brushless system via an O-scope. I didn't see one in the pits so how could someone "PROVE" any advantage? Straight speeds are an indication but are not "Proof".
Just suggesting that if you have a guy that is way faster in a straight line, they get checked out. Extra speed is by no means proof, but I have seen it where the 10th place guy got torn down after he was 2 mph faster than the leader. turns out the bike was a bit bigger than it was supposed to be. Could even be someone swapped a arm or windings into a motor, not a speed control issue.

John
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:12 PM   #128
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What the controversy about the ESC was...the RX 7.4 volt pack was wired into the speed control and what people theorized about this was it was feeding 7.4 volts to the motor therefore not fitting into the 3.8 volt 1 Cell lipo.

The ROAR rule is open a bit for interpretation, which is how things advance. It's legal for the ESC to power the RX, but at the end says "for only this purpose" if the RX pack was giving voltage to the motor it sort of would be illegal.

It's impossible to tech...to see if it was that they could have just ran the RX battery into the RX.....BUT

I wouldn't have done it either because there are no real rules...loop hole.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:26 PM   #129
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What the controversy about the ESC was...the RX 7.4 volt pack was wired into the speed control and what people theorized about this was it was feeding 7.4 volts to the motor therefore not fitting into the 3.8 volt 1 Cell lipo.

The ROAR rule is open a bit for interpretation, which is how things advance. It's legal for the ESC to power the RX, but at the end says "for only this purpose" if the RX pack was giving voltage to the motor it sort of would be illegal.

It's impossible to tech...to see if it was that they could have just ran the RX battery into the RX.....BUT

I wouldn't have done it either because there are no real rules...loop hole.
Sounds like this has nothing whatsoever to do with "prototype" ESCs and more to do with fixing a potential loop hole in the rules.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:43 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Sounds like this has nothing whatsoever to do with "prototype" ESCs and more to do with fixing a potential loop hole in the rules.

To be fair, we don't know if they figured something out with the lower voltage before somebody else did. Software is a powerful tool.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:44 PM   #131
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To be fair, we don't know if they figured something out with the lower voltage before somebody else did. Software is a powerful tool.
So the ESC in question with the power source is also the ESC that was uber fast in the 3.7v classes? Was anyone running that ESC in the 7.4v classes? Was it fast there?
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:57 PM   #132
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So the ESC in question with the power source is also the ESC that was uber fast in the 3.7v classes? Was anyone running that ESC in the 7.4v classes? Was it fast there?
Correct, this speedo was providing laptimes at least .3 to .5 seconds quicker per lap in a capable drivers hands, and 10-20 feet to anyone using it down the backstraight regardless of driving skill.

Not aware of any being used in Sedan with 7.4v LiPo's.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:02 PM   #133
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The drama that surrounded the new speed control at IIC was almost shocking. You had people running over taking pictures while the CRC team was out at lunch and stuff. When no one was around the other manufactures were searching for some way to DQ the new speedo...In a word it was pathetic.

There are currently no rules that govern the ESC's but I assume their will be soon. The rules do not cover software updates that might have new profiles that no one else can get. It does not cover the amount of timing advance, or any of the other new features. Simply the rules are not specific enough to control this very slippery slope that we are on. How can anyone possibly tech the code that is being pushed to the Tekin...who the hell knows what those guys are doing. Same goes for the KO or anything can can be upgraded at any time and by any person. Without a way to tech software all bets are off. This is a game changer, wanna fix it? Put a rule in that does not allow customer/team upgradeable devices to be used. Yeah, I am sure this wont happen either. The governing bodies and race directors have some work to do around this issue, glad I just race.

The thing that pisses me off...was how good the new CRC car was...and the guys driving them. Everyone is spending all of this time talking about the speedo, but honestly the CRC team was well prepared and brought a great group of drivers. The new car was great and preformed well from stock up to modified (you would think I was on the team). Give credit where credit it due!
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:21 PM   #134
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Found the close-ups of it. Neat looking speedo!

http://rc50.com/modules/coppermine/a...9/picta162.jpg

http://rc50.com/modules/coppermine/a...9/picta164.jpg

http://rc50.com/modules/coppermine/a...9/PICTA296.jpg
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:22 PM   #135
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The drama that surrounded the new speed control at IIC was almost shocking. You had people running over taking pictures while the CRC team was out at lunch and stuff. When no one was around the other manufactures were searching for some way to DQ the new speedo...In a word it was pathetic.

There are currently no rules that govern the ESC's but I assume their will be soon. The rules do not cover software updates that might have new profiles that no one else can get. It does not cover the amount of timing advance, or any of the other new features. Simply the rules are not specific enough to control this very slippery slope that we are on. How can anyone possibly tech the code that is being pushed to the Tekin...who the hell knows what those guys are doing. Same goes for the KO or anything can can be upgraded at any time and by any person. Without a way to tech software all bets are off. This is a game changer, wanna fix it? Put a rule in that does not allow customer/team upgradeable devices to be used. Yeah, I am sure this wont happen either. The governing bodies and race directors have some work to do around this issue, glad I just race.

The thing that pisses me off...was how good the new CRC car was...and the guys driving them. Everyone is spending all of this time talking about the speedo, but honestly the CRC team was well prepared and brought a great group of drivers. The new car was great and preformed well from stock up to modified (you would think I was on the team). Give credit where credit it due!
A huge horsepower advantage to an already fast group is going to make a big difference. If they did not already have their act together, the extra HP would not matter anyway.

I think things are going to hit diminishing returns pretty soon, but Tekin has the advantage since they just reprogram the speedo basically at will. The big advantage with the turbo feature is that the car runs normally in the infield, and wicks up on the straights, so you keep the motor at a good temp. You can't over time the motor beyond what will make it cog and/or over heat, but if you can max out the timing where you need it (the straights) while still retaining the punch, game over.
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