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Old 09-14-2009, 07:17 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
that is external to the speedo. so what if it were internal? and what if it were similar technology to how the tekin determins when to "boost"
It would still be illegal. And like I said, easy to tech as long as it is always on. If it were made a hidden profile, then it would be a problem but you would never keep it secret. Sooner or later someone would blab and the speedo would be made illegal.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:36 AM   #107
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It would still be illegal. And like I said, easy to tech as long as it is always on. If it were made a hidden profile, then it would be a problem but you would never keep it secret. Sooner or later someone would blab and the speedo would be made illegal.
i just went through the ROAR rule book. I see nothing that would restrict a speed controller from doing this. there are rules that says the motor can not be powered by a secondary power source(rx pack) but nothing to say the speedo could not change the supplied power in anyway. I mean that is what a speedo does. it is a dc-dc convertor. what would make it different if it was a dc-dc step up convertor?
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:57 AM   #108
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Also, I would like to add that every manufacturer doing what Tekin did will only make it worse with the "team-only-profiles".
Well there are already "team only" everything...thats where all the testing is done. With that said I was at the IIC...I walked up to Randy Pike and introduced myself. We talked about the track layout and he programmed my ESC with a yet to be released software. However this was available to anyone who ran a Tekin and took the initiative to go talk to Randy. The support Tekin provides needs to be an example to other manufactures...which I think will make things better for everyone.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:01 AM   #109
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Tekin had something going on. They were lowering delay to .3 sec. Who knows what else they had up their sleeves.

--pakk
This was something that Randy did for whoever asked him. He felt it was needed to get the turbo to kick in at the desired spot on the straight.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:51 AM   #110
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Cuffs: Remember when the transformation from Brushed to Brushless motors first started, I warned the R/C community that Brushless would come down to a battle of speed control technology, (black box technology was my catch phrase...ring a bell?!?) I must be Nostra-Putnam!

No sense in trying to form rules on something you can't tech.

As for what happened in Vegas, I didn't see any names in the win columns that shocked me, or that haven't been there before.

Although I have not run the speedo the CRC guys were using, I have run the Tekins with the 199 and 200 updates. They are flat out incredible units.

I applaud Tekin for stepping outside the box and offering customers a speedo that can be programmed and updated by simply purchasing of a $40 Hotwire Interface. Brilliant.

For not having to drop $150 - $200 every time the speed control companies learns how to improve their product is a great incentive to support Tekin. All the brushless speed control companies are on a learning curve, so we should expect improvenments - and frequently at that. Tekin has figured out how to keep the racers updated without going broke. Again, brilliant -
Thanks for the kind words Todd!

Anyone at the IIC racing had my FULL support. I gave ANYONE the lower timing delay that asked for it.

As an example though Mike Dumas was running .7 delay in his 13.5 car proving that chassis setup is CRITICAL to running fast.

Everyone here at Tekin will continue to strive to make the best performing speedo's on the market. Buying a Tekin gives you access to the updates needed to keep you competitive...nuff said.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:01 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
It would still be illegal. And like I said, easy to tech as long as it is always on. If it were made a hidden profile, then it would be a problem but you would never keep it secret. Sooner or later someone would blab and the speedo would be made illegal.
This would only work in classes that have a lot of extra battery capacity. If you raise the voltage you will use more current since the watts expended will be the same or greater depending on effiency. So for the faster classes they will need more battery capacity to make it happen.

The other way to catch this type of cheating is to check straight away speeds. When a guy turning slow laps is way faster down the straight, check his equipment. I know this has been done in full sized road racing and has caught a few cheaters. Funny when a 10th place guys is faster than 1st. The true top racers wont be going to something that blatant as they are usually pretty close in speed.

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Old 09-14-2009, 10:13 AM   #112
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The other way to catch this type of cheating is to check straight away speeds. When a guy turning slow laps is way faster down the straight, check his equipment. I know this has been done in full sized road racing and has caught a few cheaters. Funny when a 10th place guys is faster than 1st. The true top racers wont be going to something that blatant as they are usually pretty close in speed.

John
... And this is exactly what was happening in 1/12 Stock (17.5), 1/12 SuperStock (13.5), and World GT 13.5 for the cars with this new speedo.

These cars were amazingly fast, ripping out of the corners, and then gaining 10-20 feet on just about anyone down the straight. Fortunately, a few of the drivers were not that good or consistent enough to get a huge overall race advantage with the extra power.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:25 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Todd Putnam View Post
Cuffs:
I applaud Tekin for stepping outside the box and offering customers a speedo that can be programmed and updated by simply purchasing of a $40 Hotwire Interface. Brilliant.

For not having to drop $150 - $200 every time the speed control companies learns how to improve their product is a great incentive to support Tekin. All the brushless speed control companies are on a learning curve, so we should expect improvenments - and frequently at that. Tekin has figured out how to keep the racers updated without going broke. Again, brilliant -
Great for the customer, bad for the manufacturer. Where will their future sales come if no one is buying their speedos? Really, it's only the buying cycle that is lengthened cause customers always need a new speedo every X years. Is the updated software free or is there a cost?
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:28 AM   #114
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The thing everyone of you guys miss
is...


The beginner racer ....

He's has to deal with all of this and my money is on the fact that all the new blood on-road has destroy will continue to dry up ...


Beginner's are't gona pay for it if they can't be competitive....

Stock ? Spec ?


Gona die ....


Long live the Mod class's.....
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:44 AM   #115
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Its pretty simple. If the new guy coming in wants to be competitive off the ball, I will point him in the direction of the RS or RS Pro for the 21.5, 17.5, 13.5 and 10.5 classes. If they are serious, they will do the investigation on their own and discover what is fast and what is last. They will purchase accordingly. Then they can work on their setup, driving ability and concentrate on having fun. Yes the RS is $70 (maybe a little more or less)more than the $99 Havoc 3S, but I'd spend that on the Advil for the headaches I'd get trying to explain why the Havoc will never beat the RS unless he has absolutely no talent to drive an RC car. It is $99 saved by going this route and much less frustration and disappointment as the driver then cannot blame his gear. Most of these guys will not even need to buy a Hotwire as there are always racers ready to hook a new racer up with the latest firmware. Some classes like VTA, should run with turbo disabled, but that's another long story about an intentionally slow class that's going too fast... The other mfgs will fall in line soon enough. Most already have a version similar or available as others have brought up previously.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:48 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
The thing everyone of you guys miss
is...


The beginner racer ....

He's has to deal with all of this and my money is on the fact that all the new blood on-road has destroy will continue to dry up ...


Beginner's are't gona pay for it if they can't be competitive....

Stock ? Spec ?


Gona die ....



Long live the Mod class's.....


17.5 sportsman had a great turn out and It was nice to see IIC classify 17.5 sedan as a Sportsman/Amatuer class....

All the proto stuff if you can call a profile proto was in the expert 13.5 ....
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:51 AM   #117
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The only way to effectively tech ESC's would be to open them out of the box and hand them out at a race. With that being said, what does an Electronic Speed Control do? It controls the speed of the motor. Sounds like someone built a better mouse trap. Which means, others will improve or fade off into the sunset. It is called racing, not practice or bashing.


LRP had a grip on performance for a while. Tekin is now right there. This was bound to happen. The ESC is second only the tires in importance. If you have a ton of power but can't put it down it won't do you any good.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:58 AM   #118
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The only way to effectively tech ESC's would be to open them out of the box and hand them out at a race. With that being said, what does an Electronic Speed Control do? It controls the speed of the motor. Sounds like someone built a better mouse trap. Which means, others will improve or fade off into the sunset. It is called racing, not practice or bashing.


LRP had a grip on performance for a while. Tekin is now right there. This was bound to happen. The ESC is second only the tires in importance. If you have a ton of power but can't put it down it won't do you any good.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:12 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Ginsu View Post
The only way to effectively tech ESC's would be to open them out of the box and hand them out at a race. With that being said, what does an Electronic Speed Control do? It controls the speed of the motor. Sounds like someone built a better mouse trap. Which means, others will improve or fade off into the sunset. It is called racing, not practice or bashing.


LRP had a grip on performance for a while. Tekin is now right there. This was bound to happen. The ESC is second only the tires in importance. If you have a ton of power but can't put it down it won't do you any good.

you are spot on but doesnt your racing organization roar say it has to be available to public or no? do the iic use roar rules?
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:21 AM   #120
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I dont know if its true or not but i heard the speedo in question won 17.5 and 13.5 at the IIC. Any confirmation on that?
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