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Old 09-17-2009, 08:08 AM   #526
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First there is a question of wether the SC in question is a full prototype. The way I read it is it's one of their SC's retasked to handle single cell lipo. Does that qualify as a prototype? And Tekin was there with new software for their speedo, would that not qualify as prototype?

ROAR's rules on prototype parts concern chassis parts, not electronics, but I suppose they could apply. This came out of Associated's "stealth" cars that they took to the world championships. That was like 1990? It was also meant to prevent companies from releasing cars the day before a national event.

It is impossible to have any kind of rules regulating speed controls, since you cannot monitor what they do in "real time." (during a race). There's no way of telling in tech what the sc does in a race.
again kn said nothing about the iic. the question again is "Should a prototype speed controller be legal in sportsman class racing at a ROAR Event"
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:13 AM   #527
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Truly committed racers (or racers who should be committed?) will always get the lastest and greatest thing as soon as it comes out. If they can't use it at a ROAR race because it missed the deadline by lets say a week they just won't go to that ROAR race.

And that comes from experience.
I agree on the "committed" but I think the alternate meaning of the word from you
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:15 AM   #528
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again kn said nothing about the iic. the question again is "Should a prototype speed controller be legal in sportsman class racing at a ROAR Event"
It doesn't bother me one bit but I would say no, it probably should not be but if it is, I'm still racing

Well, actually I would probably run mod so what do I care.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:16 AM   #529
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The ESC didn't help the person that had one in WGT because his driving wasn't quite there, so a little extra speed did not win the race for him
you are correct. the wgt car was not a podium contender, but would the guy that qualified 10th and ended up racing for an a main spot. would he have had an a main spot if it were not for said speedo?
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:18 AM   #530
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you are correct. the wgt car was not a podium contender, but would the guy that qualified 10th and ended up racing for an a main spot. would he have had an a main spot if it were not for said speedo?
I wasn't there to see it but if others estimate of his driving are true, he might have done better with slightly less power. Probably not but you never know.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:20 AM   #531
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Prototype ESC's - ROAR, Legal, Fair, Sportsmanship, Opinions?

So far we've discovered:

Prototype - yes. Its not available for general distribution.
ROAR - Will use their rules for their regional and national events. This ESC would not be allowed in stock due to availability.
Legal - Yes, it was accepted by the race director for this event.
Fair - Doesn't matter, see 'Legal'.
Sportsmanship - CRC was willing to pull the ESCs, but needed more then 8 minutes to establish a proper ESC setup and gearing. Again see 'Legal'.
Opinion - The Black Diamond will change the horizon for brushless speed controllers. Per the CRC website, they will be available for general distribution some time next month. It still would not have helped a schmuck like me who can't run within .4 consistantly for 20+ laps.

I need to learn to drive better to be competitive. I am not one of the top 1000 RC racers in the world.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:24 AM   #532
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If I may add to this, it's hard to consider anyone an amateur that goes to a big race like the IIC, or the ROAR nats. Amateur racing is done at the club or local level, and should be promoted there. This way each club can come up with it's own set of rules that best suits the racers who run there. When you go to a higher level race you have to expect you will race against the best racers with the best equipment. Which is good for racers like you who want to improve their skills to maybe compete with these peope, or to improve your results at your home track.
Remember amateur does not mean beginner. The amateur class at the IIC is specifically made for the non sponsored club racer. It gives the average joe a chance to compete against others from around the country. So yes myself and guys I went with and competed against were all running the best equipment we could buy.

As far as prototype equipment...I think that needs to stay in the non amateur classes...which it was.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:25 AM   #533
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It doesn't bother me one bit but I would say no, it probably should not be but if it is, I'm still racing

Well, actually I would probably run mod so what do I care.
agreed. if "open" is the class, then who cares. but if we are talking stock, which limits the class to motors and if we talk tc also limits tires and such, should we not look at a true "spec" class? because without these limits and just limiting the motor, there are so many other ways to "tweek" the system to be that much faster. good racing is when the field is around the same speed and the driving skills is what we see to excel the car to the top

I actually hope that this speedo is the real deal, but gotta wonder what all the other speedo manufactures are thinking when one of your competitors improve a product so dramatically as this speedo has done over the rest of the field
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:28 AM   #534
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Here's an idea to toy with to make it a more level playing field.

Ballast weights (a'la BTCC). Weights are added to every final rounds top finishers (1st to 5th maybe?). This way, the cars will have a closer battle on track for the following finals. How much weight to be added will require some extensive testing though.

Weight is something that no technology whatsoever can overcome.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:31 AM   #535
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Here's an idea to toy with to make it a more level playing field.

Ballast weights (a'la BTCC). Weights are added to every final rounds top finishers (1st to 5th maybe?). This way, the cars will have a closer battle on track for the following finals. How much weight to be added will require some extensive testing though.

Weight is something that no technology whatsoever can overcome.
VTA cars go faster with more weight... There's a paradox. You just want to keep it rolling in the correct racing line to carry the speed.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:33 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
If I may add to this, it's hard to consider anyone an amateur that goes to a big race like the IIC, or the ROAR nats. Amateur racing is done at the club or local level, and should be promoted there. This way each club can come up with it's own set of rules that best suits the racers who run there. When you go to a higher level race you have to expect you will race against the best racers with the best equipment. Which is good for racers like you who want to improve their skills to maybe compete with these peope, or to improve your results at your home track.
actually amateur is quite easy to define for me, anyone who pays for their equipment, pays for their travel, and doesn't get paid to race. just like in any other sport once you start gettting paid to play you aren't an amatuer anymore. i fully expect to race against the best at big races in 13.5 and mod, not in stock/17.5

yes i was at vegas and i ran amatuer rubber and 13.5 rubber
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:37 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
If I may add to this, it's hard to consider anyone an amateur that goes to a big race like the IIC, or the ROAR nats. Amateur racing is done at the club or local level, and should be promoted there. This way each club can come up with it's own set of rules that best suits the racers who run there. When you go to a higher level race you have to expect you will race against the best racers with the best equipment. Which is good for racers like you who want to improve their skills to maybe compete with these peope, or to improve your results at your home track.
Your right, if you go to an event like this you should not be an amateur.
I know this is off subject but what if ROAR did this?

You run the regional to qualify for a sectional, just for kicks say the top 20 in each class qualify for a sectional, then at the sectional do the same thing, then have a national. If there are racers that can't make the national you continue down the list from the sectional race for other racers to go. This would also give a national ranking to racers year by year. It would also help attendance at the regional races.

As for the topic, most everyone agrees that the guy who won could have won without the speed control. But, to quote Ralph Burch, "At the national level it's all about the details and equipment, everyone can drive!" So if one person or team has equipment no else can attain, they have an advantage, whether this is fair or not comes into personal morals. To me it's not fair, but thats my opinion. It's like doing steroids in baseball, it wasn't against the rules, but was morally wrong.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:41 AM   #538
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actually amateur is quite easy to define for me, anyone who pays for their equipment, pays for their travel, and doesn't get paid to race. just like in any other sport once you start gettting paid to play you aren't an amatuer anymore. i fully expect to race against the best at big races in 13.5 and mod, not in stock/17.5

yes i was at vegas and i ran amatuer rubber and 13.5 rubber
but that is quite different. you got partial sponsored drivers. they pay for their equipment (at a discount). they pay for their entry fees and they pay for their travel. I mean if your lhs has ever given you a pinion or a t-shirt to wear, that is sponsorship. so are you no longer an amateur? or is there a class in between?

the IIC defined amateur as the racer that has zero sponsorship. no help at any level. and no manufacture stickers on the body was allowed.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:03 AM   #539
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Because what skill do you need in drag racing Its ALL motor.
Spoken like someone who has never drag raced! Or maybe got spanked doing so and blames it on the other guy's "motor"...






Probably going to get fired for sitting here and reading this whole thread, and all I contribute is a pot shot at a friend. Just as valuable as 99.9% of the other "contributions" though.






Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to email Randy for the .3 sec. delay.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:25 AM   #540
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again kn said nothing about the iic. the question again is "Should a prototype speed controller be legal in sportsman class racing at a ROAR Event"
To answer this question.

1. There currently is NO AMATURE racing class or skill level based class in ROAR racing, so the question is almost moot.

2. ROAR rule 12.4.3 ... Vehicles, parts, and accessories used in Stock electric classes must be readily available through retail outlets at least 14 days prior to the event.

Rule 12.4.3 also applies to Super Stock and to ESC's. So to answer your question ..... NO ....... this esc would not have been legal at a ROAR event and unless this ESC is retail store available it won't be legal for the upcoming On Road Nats in Maryland.

Hats off to the CRC guys, they did their homework, they did their testing, they put their track time in preparing for this race and they brought the best racers to the IIC to show off their goods and they did!!!! To think or even insinuate that the CRC team would cheat is pretty crazy. Frank's a businessman with a successful RC company. How many racers would continue to buy CRC products if they were really found out to be cheating???? Do you really think Frank and CRC would take that risk, I don't.

Congrats Frank, Brian, Hopo and the rest of the CRC team for a dominating performance.

Last edited by schurcr; 09-17-2009 at 09:35 AM.
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