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Old 09-14-2009, 05:41 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by veecee View Post
Were they really that much faster? I mean look at how skinny those motor wires are...
Yes - these cars looked like they had the next lowest wind motor in them, they ripped out of the corners. In the hands of a skilled driver, you would have easily achieved .3 to .5 seconds quicker per lap, and any driver regardless of skill could make up 10-20 feet on the back straight.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:44 PM   #272
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I said the same about the battery, but I've never tested what a 180-300mah 2S lipo and 1S 5000mah lipo will do...I'm assuming since they can be combined that the voltage will go up...and the MAH are shared.
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If you hook a 1s and 2s pack together in series you will see a lot more voltage (3s), but if that 2s pack is only 200mah or so, it wont have that voltage for long. The whole thing is dumb. There are much better ways to boost voltage, using a tiny little rx pack would not work very well.

the one crc car i looked at was hard wired from the lipo to the esc, scotty made announcement that all lipos had to have a plug so a deans plug was installed on just one post of the esc.

hope that clears up some confusion,

as far as the second quote, if you hook a 7.4 lipo to a 3.7 lipo the 3.7 will drain the 7.4 trying to equalized the voltage between the two. at 150-200 milliamps, thats not going to last but a minute
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:45 PM   #273
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This is why I'm watching this thread.

Also, I remember resistance and wire gauges as the bigger the wire,
the less resistance it has. The only way I remember this is to think of the current flowing through the wire in terms of water flowing in a pipe. Smaller pipes have more resistance to water flow, just like smaller wires have more electrical resistance.
It's impossible to tech, and I hope that we don't create rules form forums. Ask the manufactures what they want to do and how things can be tech. Creating rules for things that are near impossible to tech without software and engineering degrees is hard to do.

Don't allow prototypes in motor limit controlled racing and the problem is really solved. We can't base anything off a prototype that's not even here yet. It's not fair to those who have been supporting racing from day 1.

So there are some valid concerns and lessons from this thread and the race...what they are isn't a rule yet.

From my observations so far.

1. We need to make rules to make sure there is no voltage bumping from RX lipo.

2. This may be simply changing the rule to batteries must be run to the RX first...I don't know.

3. Nothing will stop somebody from creating a competitive advantage. Even though I'm theorizing (fancy pants term for guessing) that the RX did help with voltage if they simply came up with better software with timing advance more power to them. Of course those who don't have will scream cheater, but every time somebody figures something out this happens.

4. If somebody at a race enters the faster level they maybe shouldn't be allowed to entered the slower...or a "amateur" class must be enforced.

5. When somebody does figure out a loop hole we have to figure out if we want to change it or move forward.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:47 PM   #274
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as far as the second quote, if you hook a 7.4 lipo to a 3.7 lipo the 3.7 will drain the 7.4 trying to equalized the voltage between the two. at 150-200 milliamps, thats not going to last but a minute
Exactly the point I was trying to make.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:47 PM   #275
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Yes - these cars looked like they had the next lowest wind motor in them, they ripped out of the corners. In the hands of a skilled driver, you would have easily achieved .3 to .5 seconds quicker per lap, and any driver regardless of skill could make up 10-20 feet on the back straight.
They were that much faster...already. Good for CRC!!! They have great cars and good drivers. Some might say if everybody had those it would return everything to it's normal order..where everybody is pretty equal in speed.

But you could see that speed. Was pretty cool to watch actually. I needed it!
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:50 PM   #276
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as far as the second quote, if you hook a 7.4 lipo to a 3.7 lipo the 3.7 will drain the 7.4 trying to equalized the voltage between the two. at 150-200 milliamps, thats not going to last but a minute
I don't think this is true, we already power the motor of the RX. I was shown several times that the pack was already putting power to the motor by them turning the car on with the RX and it turning the wheels.

So it could be worked out with a diode to combine the two and stop the two charging each other, but with one having higher volts and less capacity and the other providing the amps and no volts...who knows. It's hard to say without somebody really taking that ESC apart to see if it is that....it may not be, but right now it very well could be.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:52 PM   #277
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Wow almost 20 pages on this. In a way I think it cool that a company has figured out how to get that much more out of their equipment, sucks for the drivers this race that didn't have it, but really how often is the gap this big? Every time something is done to slow something down, someone figures out a way to get that extra bit more out of it than everyone else.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:52 PM   #278
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yes, and to be more specific frequency also makes a difference. I'm not sure where we fall on brushless but since we've run ESCs at higher frequency voltage I'll be it also follow AC wire physics and only really flows on the outside skin of the wire...making thickness not as important.
The larger diameter of big wire still carries more current. That's why high frequency ac lines are hollow, but still have a large diameter.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:57 PM   #279
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I'll also correct my prior comment. I can't find anything on it, and I thought I read that having a wire that was too thick wasn't actually efficient, but I think it was just the weight, stiffness and cost that was the "inefficient" part of that. There is a point of diminishing returns, but apparently a 100block of copper is efficient...but the energy required to move that is the inefficient part of that.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:04 PM   #280
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As a new guy to on-road, I call bull . The problem is a simple matter of expectations and education. The real issue is a new guy expecting to be competetive out of the gate.

The first thing you have to do is learn to drive well. Second, learn to setup your car/chassis. Only after those two can you expect to be able to use the "latest and greatest" tech. What good does it do to get all the powerful stuff if you can't handle it? All a newbie would end up doing is breaking his stuff faster and then quitting because he just blew a bunch of money and can't/doesn't want to pay for replacement stuff. You can't just drop a bunch of money and be competetive from day one.

There are enough classes now in many on-road programs where there is a really good progression from novice -> amateur/sportsman -> expert. And the best part is that to make it through novice (and much of the way through amateur), you don't actually have to spend all that much money. At those levels, driver/mechanic skills are going to make a much larger difference than money and the latest-and-greatest gear.

As a techie/geek, I personally _love_ the trend of speedos going the route of updateable firmware paired with computer software. I applaud Tekin for their product (definitely a speedo I want to upgrade to when I'm not such a newb), and I hope other companies catch up. In the long haul, competition amongst these companies will greatly benefit us, the racers.
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jolson ,

hurry up and get that CRC or your gona out luck being the slower car & all ....

O-Wait !
Tekin will fix it soon so they are faster , but then Lrp will throw down their thump card ....

Have fun buying all those speedo's...

talk about Bull ?
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Nope, there is _zero_ need for me to buy either one of those speedos . Since I primarily have to work on my driving/setup skills right now, I'm just running an older LRP speedo with a Silver Can in novice, and soon-to-be RCGT/"Scale Spec" at the Hangar.

Even if I did bump up to 17.5 stock, I would still not need the top-of-the-line speedo because there would still be a lot of learning I would need to do before I could actually use that power. My personal opinion is that boost/turbo/timing doesn't mean _jack squat_ if you are still hitting the boards every lap (or every couple of laps).

It's not the destination that counts, it's the journey .

Now, if you are already a racing expert, I can see your point . But I was specifically debating your belief of this killling "new blood" in on-road.

P.S. You should know how bad of a driver I am right now after observing my horrendous driving skills are even in off-road racing novice at TRCR .
J, welcome to world of george W cherry, the NW's foremost expert on everything RC, common sense be danged, His responses will not, can not have anything to do with your post, and if it come close, it will be twisted and in need of a decoder ring most of the time.

Your right on track. got be able to drive it before the ESC makes any difference.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:04 PM   #281
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Don't allow prototypes in motor limit controlled racing and the problem is really solved. We can't base anything off a prototype that's not even here yet. It's not fair to those who have been supporting racing from day 1.
Would that apply to hardware or software? If software then how do you tech it?
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:05 PM   #282
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It seemed like a majority of the hurt butts was from the adjustable ESC firmware camp, presumably because someone beat them at the game they started.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:17 PM   #283
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It seemed like a majority of the hurt butts was from the adjustable ESC firmware camp, presumably because someone beat them at the game they started.

Listen its simple. If they beat the competition thru software they did there homework if they beat everyone thru bumping the voltage during the throttle curve then thats pretty lame. I wasnt there but heard alot about it. Ive raced with Frank and the all the CRC guys for a long time and i really think they would have too much too lose if they got caught with illegal speedos. Just my thought. Why couldnt they run the receiver pack thru the receiver. That would have shut everyone up.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:18 PM   #284
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The thing that pisses me off...was how good the new CRC car was...and the guys driving them. Everyone is spending all of this time talking about the speedo, but honestly the CRC team was well prepared and brought a great group of drivers. The new car was great and preformed well from stock up to modified (you would think I was on the team). Give credit where credit it due!
thats the really funny part, the new CRC car, that isn't available to joe blow yet, the top car, the slapmaster, the, the, the, all the the's that were prototype and not available, no ones complaining about that, only a esc. heck, could have just been a super secret radio program that works with all esc's, the guys that ran 1/12 and WGT and ran at the top of the quals and mains, were the best of the best and you could see it in the lines they ran lap after lap, after lap and if you can't do that, doesn't matter how much voltage or esc you have.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:21 PM   #285
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Why couldnt they run the receiver pack thru the receiver. That would have shut everyone up.
I believe al dente said in an earlier post they tried that, and the ESC won't work at all.
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