Prototype ESC's - ROAR, Legal, Fair, Sportsmanship, Opinions?
09-14-2009, 01:09 PM
#166
I just remembered Frank mentioned to me why the RX pack was wired to the ESC at the manufacturers taco dinner...it was because the ESC had a regulator built in to regulate the voltage to the RX. That way you could run a LiPo 7.4v RX pack without having to run a separate regulator.
09-14-2009, 01:10 PM
#167
The Black Diamond speed control mentioned here?
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...e=print&sid=94
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...e=print&sid=94
09-14-2009, 01:13 PM
#168
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
yes
09-14-2009, 01:16 PM
#170
So is the issue here that there is possibly something illegal about the speed control in question (voltage booster, powering motor off of receiver pack, etc.), or that while the the speedo is completely legal and not doing anything funny, but people just can't get them?
There has ALWAYS been stuff that has either been prototype or 'team only' at these races, they just aren't as blatant as a new ESC. New foam tire compounds, special 'good' batches of F-brushes, new chassis tuning parts, etc. It's impossible to regulate all of this stuff, much less tech it.
If this speedo is doing something illegal, people will find out when it's released and get called out on it. If not, then other speedo manufacturers will buy one and reverse engineer the software and add it to their own.
There has ALWAYS been stuff that has either been prototype or 'team only' at these races, they just aren't as blatant as a new ESC. New foam tire compounds, special 'good' batches of F-brushes, new chassis tuning parts, etc. It's impossible to regulate all of this stuff, much less tech it.
If this speedo is doing something illegal, people will find out when it's released and get called out on it. If not, then other speedo manufacturers will buy one and reverse engineer the software and add it to their own.
09-14-2009, 01:17 PM
#171
09-14-2009, 01:17 PM
#172
Now tekin and Speedpassion have user updateable software, sooner or later, all the rest will follow suit. Someone somewhere will figure out how to hack those softwares and share it with the world. Then everyone will be able to customize their esc's EXACTLY how they want it to work.... I can't wait to see that day.
09-14-2009, 01:17 PM
#173
I have a question, did anyone ask Calandra what they were doing? He's usually pretty open about this stuff.
Another point with this turbo mode, is it possible that it's not an increase in voltage, but what could best be described as dynamic timing? Think about it, low timing in the slow parts of the track, then advance the timing a bunch in the straight. That's not only fair, but legal.
Another point with this turbo mode, is it possible that it's not an increase in voltage, but what could best be described as dynamic timing? Think about it, low timing in the slow parts of the track, then advance the timing a bunch in the straight. That's not only fair, but legal.
As for Brian Wynn, 17.5 Stock 12th was not an Amateur event for 2009 like it was for 2008, this year it was only 17.5 Amateur Sedan. As a corner marshal for the A-Main 12th Stock race, I don't think I saw the ESC in question in his stock car, but an LRP. He was noticeably slower in the main, but he was flawless in his driving and still brought it home.
I hope we will see some changes in the near future as to whom qualifies to race "Stock" classes. Proven and experienced racers, such as Brian Wynn, should race in SuperStock and above only, not Stock where Amateurs and Privateers normally hope to have some chance at success.
Last edited by kn7671; 09-14-2009 at 01:31 PM.
09-14-2009, 01:22 PM
#175
jiml - If you would have seen these cars come ripping out of the corners and scream past everyone else on the backstraight at the IIC, you would NOT be thinking anything about timing at all. These cars looked liked they had 10.5 motors in the 13.5 class, and 13.5 motors in the 17.5 class. The acceleration rate was phenomenal to say the least.
09-14-2009, 01:24 PM
#177
The bottom line is there was really nothing anybody can do at the event, since rules are vague for the event and if nobody protested enough to cause anything to happen.
What it does do is open the door to prevent this, and make sure that outside packs are NOT powering the speedo...or any sort of voltage boosting.
But..run mod, no cheating.
What it does do is open the door to prevent this, and make sure that outside packs are NOT powering the speedo...or any sort of voltage boosting.
But..run mod, no cheating.
09-14-2009, 01:25 PM
#178
Tech Rookie
Shall we open the can of worms now......
Exactly how far off are these statements now lmao:
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
09-14-2009, 01:28 PM
#179
Exactly how far off are these statements now lmao:
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
Second, we're discussing speed controls here.
Brushed motors are history. Deal with it.
09-14-2009, 01:28 PM
#180
Exactly how far off are these statements now lmao:
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
This is all correct. Racing means you spend money. The bottom line. The only cheap class of racing I've seen in years is Slash...even then you can replace that cheap motor just about every run to gain an advantage.
Stock, or limited motor wind classes are the most expensive to run....period. EDIT That...WIN.
