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Old 09-14-2009, 01:26 PM   #136
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The drama that surrounded the new speed control at IIC was almost shocking. You had people running over taking pictures while the CRC team was out at lunch and stuff. When no one was around the other manufactures were searching for some way to DQ the new speedo...In a word it was pathetic.

There are currently no rules that govern the ESC's but I assume their will be soon. The rules do not cover software updates that might have new profiles that no one else can get. It does not cover the amount of timing advance, or any of the other new features. Simply the rules are not specific enough to control this very slippery slope that we are on. How can anyone possibly tech the code that is being pushed to the Tekin...who the hell knows what those guys are doing. Same goes for the KO or anything can can be upgraded at any time and by any person. Without a way to tech software all bets are off. This is a game changer, wanna fix it? Put a rule in that does not allow customer/team upgradeable devices to be used. Yeah, I am sure this wont happen either. The governing bodies and race directors have some work to do around this issue, glad I just race.

The thing that pisses me off...was how good the new CRC car was...and the guys driving them. Everyone is spending all of this time talking about the speedo, but honestly the CRC team was well prepared and brought a great group of drivers. The new car was great and preformed well from stock up to modified (you would think I was on the team). Give credit where credit it due!

Why is upgradeable wrong. When new software comes out a new ESC comes out...you have to buy it. Those who firmware update are helping the consumer.

Also the simple way to look at this is just like at ROAR events...no prototype stuff in stock classes...simple. It has to be on the market and available to be legal.

Crying about buying new stuff is like crying you have to breath air. We all have to do it, and that's how things work.

Nobody is discrediting the CRC car, but to be .5 faster (A LAP) than pro drivers that usually win is a little bit unrealistic in a car being that good. They are all "that good" really. The advantage was in limited motor classes where it's ALWAYS a motor/battery war of who can go that fast.

Car and driver matter...having more power matters more.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:27 PM   #137
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Yeah the new CRC car is really nice and the new CRC shock is amazing. I picked up the shock for my car and built at the IIC to check it out. Unfortunately I didn't get to run it yet because of the length but that will be resolved soon. It definately builds better than either the Silva or IRS shocks and has better seals.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:30 PM   #138
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From what I hear, this wasn't a prototype speedo but one that has been used in europe for a little while now. If this is true, it's the racers fault for not recognizing a great product from overseas sooner. If not, sorry for the worthless post
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:34 PM   #139
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From what I hear, this wasn't a prototype speedo but one that has been used in europe for a little while now. If this is true, it's the racers fault for not recognizing a great product from overseas sooner. If not, sorry for the worthless post
I think if it were only available overseas then that would be a case where using the "widely available" rules would be appropriately applied (of course prototypes would fall into such a category too). I think such a rule is appropriate for a stock class. I have no idea what the rules for IIC are.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:35 PM   #140
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Here comes the telemetry-based tech inspection...
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:36 PM   #141
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I think if it were only available overseas then that would be a case where using the "widely available" rules would be appropriately applied (of course prototypes would fall into such a category too). I think such a rule is appropriate for a stock class. I have no idea what the rules for IIC are.

Since we're racing in the US, we only care about the US, but it includes being able to get it.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:38 PM   #142
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Since we're racing in the US, we only care about the US, but it includes being able to get it.
Except this is an international race, not a ROAR Nats. So a dude running a car from a small european manufacturer can not race because they don't have a US distributor?
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:40 PM   #143
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Since we're racing in the US, we only care about the US, but it includes being able to get it.
The ESC in question was used at an international event. In cases where you have drivers/manufactures from all over the world you may run into a case where someone will be running products that are not available here in the US.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #144
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True, this is racing, and currently it appears that no rules were broken.

The concern is not that the speedo is faster by some electronic wizardry, but that ROAR has no rules or guidelines pertaining to what an ESC can or can't do.

Software cannot be a rule. With brushless motors, the ESC has become the tuning tool that brushes, springs, and timing used to be to brushed motors/ESC's. Software is too hard to govern, and can be defeated too easily. What can be ruled on is what an ESC can use as a power source, and what an ESC can do with the batteries voltage.

In the spirit of racing, I truly hope that is NOT found that the receiver pack being directly connected to the ESC is being used as a supplemental motor power source, but simply as a means to provide a stable working ESC power source. If the ESC is stepping up the batteries voltage prior to sending in through the motor circuit, and this is determined to be fair and legal, than we should all stand back and watch the speedo manufacturers duke it out, cause all of our cars are about to get faster.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #145
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Since we're racing in the US, we only care about the US, but it includes being able to get it.
Yeah that is what I meant if it didn't read that way. An overseas speedo wouldn't be widely available and neither would a prototype. The prototype being the harder of the two to tech because the hardware could be existing but the software be prototype.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:43 PM   #146
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What's next? A hand out speedo for amateur?
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:45 PM   #147
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What's next? A hand out speedo for amateur?
God I hope not...
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:46 PM   #148
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IMO, one simple solution resulting from the maintenance convenience of brushless motors is…"NO MOTOR LIMITS".

Good old fashioned HP will eliminate any advantage generated through a "black-box" technology. If you want a novice class, switch to 540 hand-out Johnson motors ($15) plus there are plenty of steeply discounted brushed motor speedos available on the market that will keep the cost way down for newer / budget / young racers while keeping racing as fair and competitive as possible.

If I was involved with ROAR, this is the direction I would push for electric R/C. Fuel On-Road guys never seem to have this dilemma.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:48 PM   #149
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What's next? A hand out speedo for amateur?
If so, hopefully it doesn't require 3 extra feet of wire to solder it into our cars!
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:48 PM   #150
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The ESC in question was used at an international event. In cases where you have drivers/manufactures from all over the world you may run into a case where someone will be running products that are not available here in the US.

We still follow US ROAR rules, just like when we go to an event overseas.

In this case the arguement of being a small overseas company is moot...since it was a prototype.

And in ROAR STock classes prohibit that.
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