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Old 08-25-2009, 11:56 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
I'm not a regular reader of XRC but the latest issue I picked up seemed pretty balanced to me. Sure there were more offroad articles but that's the industry trend right now. You can't call a magazine biased because it's following the trend. At least onroad coverages that should have been covered were mostly all there. Now RCCA on the other hand..

With that said, I wholeheartedly disagree to the statement that TC is dead. Something like 235mm 1/10th is dead. A segment that still attracts 100+ racers in a single race in this downturn of the economy is definitely not dead. That IMO was a very poor choice of wording and statements like that only serve to steer newcomers away from the onroad segment of the hobby.

And I don't know about other parts of the country but where I live, onroad is still quite popular and I don't see the class going away in any measurable amount of time. At my home track (Blue Diamond R/C at New Castle, Delaware), the dominating class is 200mm nitro with at least 3 mains every club race. We race offroad Saturdays and onroad Sundays, and the # of entrances in both segments are very similar. There's also a traveling onroad series that focuses on VTA/RCGT with good # of entries every time they race. Oh and at another local track (Jackson Raceway, home of the 2009 Xray Challenge), the offroad track is abandoned due to lack of interest while the onroad track was freshly rebuilt to a national level track .

Not to mention that there's a new indoor onroad track opening nearby for the upcoming winter.

I feel the shift towards offroad is just a part of natural cycle and given time the interest will shift back to onroad (and so forth). I remember back in early-mid nineties when it was mostly offroad. Then the TC boom hit and everyone and his cousin were racing TC's. And look where we are now. Let's just try to make the best out of it .

Shhh don't tell people about cycles it's too much common sense...yes if you look back we go through cycles of everything. Off-road, on-road, nitro, electric, scale, not scale. Right now we're in an off road scale cycle
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:00 PM   #92
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Actually, I could care less about race coverages. Seriously. I think Derek hit the nail on the head on that one. Because honestly, we have fun playing amongst ourselves than some factory driver coming by with a ton of free parts and pre-setup cars and demolishing people. Sure it gives a challenge, but honestly, big deal. If they pay for parts and cars like everyone else does, much better.

I am more interested in seeing whats coming down the pike. What new innovations are in store for us. Race coverages, meh. New cars, new designs, new innovations, SPOT ON!

But we won't see much if there is no coverage in magazines. The off-road scene seems to have tapered off in terms of innovations, given how similar the off-road vehicles are looking right now. That is not interesting to me. Nor are rock-crawlers (are those really popular? I don't see anyone in my area that has one).

And like someone else said earlier, RCGT and Trans Am are TAKING OFF big time, along with ABC Hobby mini cars, as well as HPI's Cup Racer. They are affordable, have realistic bodies, and a huge following because of how affordable the cars are versus the racing TCs. Why not cover Trans Am, RCGT, and Mini cars?

Thanks for your time, Derek B.
We'll have more On-road when it comes and sooner since we have some track options now. But realistically I can't review RCGT cars when they are nothing but old cars with a new body...you know what I mean?

And to be honest, which people don't like, most of our current advertisers are NOT running or supporting on-road. I know it's difficult to accept but we do have to cater to the advertisers. Imagine being one and running off-road ads and we cover on-road all the time...so we have to balance and factor those things in.

To be honest, there isn't much "innovation" in electric off-road or on-road. What's new in TC? Other than all of them looking the same?

We have on-road cars coming, we put the HPI cup racer on the cover just a few issues ago and we'll have another one coming shortly.
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:14 PM   #93
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We'll have more On-road when it comes and sooner since we have some track options now. But realistically I can't review RCGT cars when they are nothing but old cars with a new body...you know what I mean?

And to be honest, which people don't like, most of our current advertisers are NOT running or supporting on-road. I know it's difficult to accept but we do have to cater to the advertisers. Imagine being one and running off-road ads and we cover on-road all the time...so we have to balance and factor those things in.

To be honest, there isn't much "innovation" in electric off-road or on-road. What's new in TC? Other than all of them looking the same?

We have on-road cars coming, we put the HPI cup racer on the cover just a few issues ago and we'll have another one coming shortly.
Thanks for the response, Derek B. Again, thank you for further insight on what topics in your magazine, as well as possibly other magazines.

I look forward to your future coverages and keep up the great work!
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:25 PM   #94
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It's good to see respond from a magazine representative too.

But F1 seems to be back in form, why not run something in the magazine on it. Take RCCA's review on the new Tamiya F104, it was online only and you had to be a member of their PAID website on top of a normal subscriber!
That kind of loses the point if you ask me! it really angers me, like paying a subscription isn't enough!
There are more F1 racers on our local track than touring drivers, it's cheap (ezrun 3000kv and 35A esc, Yeah Racing 3600 lipo's and Zen tires), easy to maintain, plenty of speed, reliable and it's faster than touring in laptimes!

Just like M03/M04/M05, the M05 is lipo friendly, I just added 60 gram of weight in the M05Pro and it was spot on. All are using same motor and esc in that class also, Ezrun 3000kv's also and the M-Chassi class is just 1 sec off the F1's pace a lap. The level is equal it all comes down to how good you drive, there are no money race or how many options you got!

I subscribe to 3 magazines (RCCA, Xtreme RC and R/C Car) and i think RC Car is the best so far, it has most on-road. Xtreme RC had Reedy race of champions coverage in september issue atleast, and it was good! Thank you!
I am going to call BS on RC Car having anything near our balance and on-road coverage...lol. Come on.
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:26 PM   #95
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Think this thread got a little OT

I just want to know if any heard any rumors about new el TC being around the corner ?

Heard that maybe X are coming with new car with new arms mouting and new color.....

Any other heard anything ???
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:27 PM   #96
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OKay-

So- then, I look at companies like Ofna-- I dont know of their actual origin, i assume over seas.. but they had these cars a few years back that looked an awful lot like Kyoshos and Mugens..

the HB, Xray and AE cars sure looked a lot like a 415 when they came out.. minus some geometry guesses.. i mean, like i said-- would it be as blatent if they called it the rocket2000 and made it all black?

these cases are not too unlike this. I mean, again- aside from the blue, and all of the markings.

AT LEAST- they are not asking top dollar.. or calling it a 416.
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Improving and using a good car as a basis is smart. Copying and just selling somebody else's work is actually illegal. I guess somebody could just copy all our content and put it on the web for free and that would be okay?
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:29 PM   #97
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Are you crazy? Price...durability...entry level class. Off-road nitro is as expensive if not more expensive to race than electric TC. A brushless motor lasts longer than a nitro engine. A decent nitro motor is 250 minimum. Off-road tires are done after a few runs as well depending on the surface and a set of off-road tires and wheels can cost 80 bucks.

IMO

I've done this cost break down before and it's not more expensive. You can buy an RTR race 1/8-scale for $500 that works. AND it doesn't break. I've raced on-road and breaking happens more than not. I've run months without breaking an 1/8-scale and unless you run Blue groove you can use the same tires...I do.

Initial cost is similar in all forms of racing, but long term is different.
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:33 PM   #98
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Well, it is good to see so much back-and-forth discussion on this subject of biased coverage.

To DerekB, I appreciate you're responding apparently as a representative of one of the rc magazines; it's good to see that you are paying attention to this issue. Thank you. And many of your points are well taken, especially when it comes to some forms of on-road being overly expensive and complicated, and the need for a pure spec or low cost class. In the mid 90's parking lot racing with F1 cars and then touring cars become very popular and then several things happened to ruin it. The cars became ever more complex and EXPENSIVE. And you are right, people became lazy and off-roads' appeal grew because of a perception that it was easier to do.

However, the rc magazines are still not off the hook as their extremely limited coverage of on-road and 90% coverage of off-road each month is making things even worse. You outlined a few on-road related articles in your current issue, but that's still piddle compared to the off-road coverage, and there is yet another off-road vehicle featured on the cover just like the month before and the month before and the month before; need I go on?

You have a responsibility to address this issue. If you have opinions on what is wrong with the on-road scene and ideas on how to fix it, then talk about it in your magazine. Voice those ideas and push the manufacturers to address the issue as well. Get the public involved with opinion polls and maybe even sponsor some sort of on-road series that gets back to basics.

The point here is to do something about it. I stand by my earlier statement that most of the public are like sheep that can be led in whichever direction you magazines send them; and right now you are sending them straight to the off-road scene with only a glance at on-road. As I said earlier, make things equal, 50% off-road and 50% on-road. Same with the magazine cover;
one month off-road and one month on-road and so on. Equal coverage is basically what we are looking for.

To all of you out there who have posted about this issue I thank you and ask that you keep it up and send those emails anyway and we can make the magazines and the manufacturers listen!!

Now let's see if any of the other magazines respond!
Look you're trying to argue that on-road is 50% of the market...it's not. If you talk to any company that sells everything and they tell you the truth on-road is a fraction of the market. There is more than just onroad and offroad.

I just spoke with a company that sells 1/8-scale and 1/10 nitro on road and they were asking the same thing. They said they spend the same on on-road support as off road...but here is the flaw. They admitted that they sell 8:1 offroad. So why have offroad pay for that? And second.... THEY DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE THEIR ONROAD car!!!

It's more than just what an onroad racer wants there is a much bigger dynamic to everything than just racing. We have to deal with that.
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:52 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by DerekB View Post
Look you're trying to argue that on-road is 50% of the market...it's not. If you talk to any company that sells everything and they tell you the truth on-road is a fraction of the market. There is more than just onroad and offroad.

I just spoke with a company that sells 1/8-scale and 1/10 nitro on road and they were asking the same thing. They said they spend the same on on-road support as off road...but here is the flaw. They admitted that they sell 8:1 offroad. So why have offroad pay for that? And second.... THEY DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE THEIR ONROAD car!!!

It's more than just what an onroad racer wants there is a much bigger dynamic to everything than just racing. We have to deal with that.
can you just please make sure you dont go 12-0-20 in COD:WaW. you're our "rambo ringer". when you do bad... campers like me do bad.
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:54 PM   #100
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can you just please make sure you dont go 12-0-20 in COD:WaW. you're our "rambo ringer". when you do bad... campers like me do bad.
haha, i had one of those last night...but came back strong. I think I ended with 23-7
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:55 PM   #101
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...a company that sells 1/8-scale and 1/10 nitro on road and they were asking the same thing. They said they spend the same on on-road support as off road...but here is the flaw. They admitted that they sell 8:1 offroad. So why have offroad pay for that? And second.... THEY DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE THEIR ONROAD car!!!
coughcoughMUGENcoughcough
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #102
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coughcoughMUGENcoughcough
Regardless of who it is it's hard to tell a magazine to use their money to cover things that the big players don't even want to do...
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:02 PM   #103
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I'll also offer this, just talking out loud. Yes on-road can still pull people in, but considering that the number of big races has fallen from every week, to every few months you will naturally get higher or similar entries. Ask the oval guys and they'll tell you they get those entries, yet road course guys will say "oval sucks and is dead"
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:06 PM   #104
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Yeah it's fully understandable .

I remember back in the early 2000's the magazines were filled with onroad related articles. This was before XRC but I think I recall reading your article on RCCA about a fully equipped Prime12 and a few years later, a Nitro 4-tec .
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:08 PM   #105
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Yeah it's fully understandable .

I remember back in the early 2000's the magazines were filled with onroad related articles. This was before XRC but I think I recall reading your article on RCCA about a fully equipped Prime12 and a few years later, a Nitro 4-tec .
XRC was out before 2000, but I was at RCCA.
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