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Old 08-24-2009, 03:15 PM   #61
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Well I just sent a scathing email to RC Car Action regarding their biased coverage of off-road rc. Tomorrow I will send one to RC Car magazine and then Xtreme RC and then RC Driver. However in RC Drivers' defense they have an article/test of the new Tamiya F104 Pro in their newest issue as well as an article about RCGT Racing and an article/test of the XRay T2R Pro.

So they at least tried this time. However yet another off-road vehicle is on the cover again!!

Please follow my lead on this everyone!
I've already made my posts on their forums and on their facebook. But I am assuming they will go the way of the emails: *deleted*. I even wrote on RC Driver's facebook about having Dave Baker come on down for a review of our Northeast Grand Slam indoor on-road carpet race, no reply. Dave Baker is only a few minutes away from the track.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:17 PM   #62
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Not trying to be a "S" disturber-- but the 009 has been out for ages.. heck, there is probably a "10" a couple months away--

there was a time, when the cars were reviewed BEFORE they came out. Not after the company has already sold 2000 units..
Anytime a company wants a review out before please contact me. Seems like companies like to try to avoid that now...

Also you are correct it is older, but here are a few facts. We're really not trying to sell their cars. And the main reason, we are based in Socal and until recently most onroad tracks where gone. Since the US Spec is carpet...I had to wait to be able to test it on carpet. So that's why it's delayed.

So I understand that, but also laugh at when somebody shows on-road coverage the first thing is "it's never good enough" haha.

But what new cars are out? We test stuff relevant to the US market and now that the economy sucks we have to focus more on what we can get here and less on the obscure cars that don't really matter here.

Some of these companies don't even bother sending new kits because the market is so low right now. I'm sure everybody will argue this but I really do talk to both sides of the industry and pay attention. Like it or not TC is pretty much gone except for the die hards who do it. I'll be in Vegas next month running some 1/10 and 1/12 pan cars, and I enjoy that. But the trend now is not TC.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:20 PM   #63
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Hey, i actually had a whole thing written about how i am an hour from fastcats... and perhaps could write reviews of cars...

but the grand slam thing too-- I could do a race report for that..

perhaps magazines could offer that job to locals of these larger races (im not talking about your 45 entry trophy race mind you) but the 200+ entry races like the grand slam races, the canadian indoor champs.. CLEVELAND races etc..
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:20 PM   #64
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Hopefully XRC can give some more love to on-road and I will re-subscribe but it certainly seemed for a while there it was just about Rock Crawling. Loved XRC the first 2-3 years of my subscription and the last 1-2 it started to interest me less.
That's pretty untrue. You just chose to look at what became more popular than TC. Crawling grew and became a popular. So all the companies focused their marketing on that. We sponsor a Drift event, lol and have done that for years (James and Dave run it).

But to be honest I don't see onroad coming back until some things change. Price, durability, and an entry level class. (I won't even mention the cost of tires which with rubber can be 1 runs).
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:22 PM   #65
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Hey, i actually had a whole thing written about how i am an hour from fastcats... and perhaps could write reviews of cars...

but the grand slam thing too-- I could do a race report for that..

perhaps magazines could offer that job to locals of these larger races (im not talking about your 45 entry trophy race mind you) but the 200+ entry races like the grand slam races, the canadian indoor champs.. CLEVELAND races etc..
The problem with contributor reviews is that the time and distance makes it hard and time consuming. We do so much data collection, photography and such that we'd have to build it and then send it out. This time delay will cost it a month or two in the issue line up. So it's not as simple as sending it to some random guy to test.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:30 PM   #66
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Hey, i actually had a whole thing written about how i am an hour from fastcats... and perhaps could write reviews of cars...

but the grand slam thing too-- I could do a race report for that..

perhaps magazines could offer that job to locals of these larger races (im not talking about your 45 entry trophy race mind you) but the 200+ entry races like the grand slam races, the canadian indoor champs.. CLEVELAND races etc..

I also started a feature called "The Local" where people/tracks could send in pics and a small write-up on their race. A few people did that and we ran their coverage. I'm not sure we'd pay somebody to do it, but did offer to run it in the magazine.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:30 PM   #67
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The problem with contributor reviews is that the time and distance makes it hard and time consuming. We do so much data collection, photography and such that we'd have to build it and then send it out. This time delay will cost it a month or two in the issue line up. So it's not as simple as sending it to some random guy to test.
Oh, i was thinking it would be a situation where the remote guy would do all of that. YES< i understand you have standards in photography and content.. LOL.. i was imagining a perfect world where you found guys who would do the job the way it needed to be done.

I dont know what compensation would be neccessary, perhaps they get to keep the kit if the article is useful? send it back if not? i mean, it would be a program that would have to be thought out. I understand that you cant just go sending your kits to just anyone LOL.

Maybe a trial run, where the "reporter" does a run on his own for you? I am about to have this Chinese 416 copy delivered.. id be happy to do a full article about the counterfeit car- but i think it would be more of an opinion on the gray area of counterfeit and how if these stupid cars were priced better ALL of the companies would be doing better. blah blah blah..

I dont know- just brainstorming..
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:31 PM   #68
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Anytime a company wants a review out before please contact me. Seems like companies like to try to avoid that now...

Also you are correct it is older, but here are a few facts. We're really not trying to sell their cars. And the main reason, we are based in Socal and until recently most onroad tracks where gone. Since the US Spec is carpet...I had to wait to be able to test it on carpet. So that's why it's delayed.

So I understand that, but also laugh at when somebody shows on-road coverage the first thing is "it's never good enough" haha.

But what new cars are out? We test stuff relevant to the US market and now that the economy sucks we have to focus more on what we can get here and less on the obscure cars that don't really matter here.

Some of these companies don't even bother sending new kits because the market is so low right now. I'm sure everybody will argue this but I really do talk to both sides of the industry and pay attention. Like it or not TC is pretty much gone except for the die hards who do it. I'll be in Vegas next month running some 1/10 and 1/12 pan cars, and I enjoy that. But the trend now is not TC.
Well more tracks are closing down because of the economy. I mean these are tough times. Very tough. My track, The Track (www.rctrack.com), just put in an asphalt track and will have carpet from December until Spring. I try my hardest to support the track as much as possible. And I do my shopping ONLY at the track.

Second, when people see nothing but off-road coverage, what do you think others will think? I mean this is a communal hobby, more or less. We like to do what others do and have fun doing it. I mean I enjoy the off-road scene a lot. And it is VERY fun. But at the same time, so is on-road racing. If there is more exposure for on-road racing, I am sure people will start forming up ideas on how to make more tracks. I think there was a club that convinced their local government to setup an on-road track at a park!! Where there is a will, there is a way. But you cannot neglect them. Inspire people to fill that void with the on-road scene. Take that group that had the local government build their track, and share what they did to accomplish that. Then maybe we could have more on-road tracks pop up.

And I am not saying stop off-road coverage completely. Just try fitting it in to your reviews. Do reviews of current cars. Do reviews of your own personal cars. Try even doing long term reviews of your cars or cars you have reviewed in your past.

I appreciate you taking the time to come on here and enlighten us with your perspective.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:41 PM   #69
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It sucks because from a big race competion standpoint, TC is pretty big. Unfortunately the entries look smaller because a lot of drivers only race one class, two at the most.

The Reedy race had over 150 entries and probably that many drivers, the IIC has over 150 drivers racing TC. The Euroes gets 150 drivers. 150 does not sem like a lot, but 150 drivers is a BIG race. You get 150 drivers at an off-road electric race and you can have 450 entries. At a nitro race it can be 300.
Derek you might be missing things such as VTA and RCGT which are slower spec tires classes that do cater to the entry level driver and are fan friendly with recognizable bodies.

TC may need some work to make it the most popular class as it once was. But it is definitely not dead.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:54 PM   #70
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Oh, i was thinking it would be a situation where the remote guy would do all of that. YES< i understand you have standards in photography and content.. LOL.. i was imagining a perfect world where you found guys who would do the job the way it needed to be done.

I dont know what compensation would be neccessary, perhaps they get to keep the kit if the article is useful? send it back if not? i mean, it would be a program that would have to be thought out. I understand that you cant just go sending your kits to just anyone LOL.

Maybe a trial run, where the "reporter" does a run on his own for you? I am about to have this Chinese 416 copy delivered.. id be happy to do a full article about the counterfeit car- but i think it would be more of an opinion on the gray area of counterfeit and how if these stupid cars were priced better ALL of the companies would be doing better. blah blah blah..

I dont know- just brainstorming..
I understand we're just talking out loud.

In a perfect world somebody can do all the testing, but we don't live in that world.

Also I would NEVER review a knock off 416. I don't support stealing ideas and making them cheaper. I'm sure Rick and AE would love to have all their R&D done and no race team and just poop out a TC5 to sell cheaper.

You say you love on-road but you're supporting the wrong end of it.

Sorry I'm not really upset at you, but pointing out how bad for the hobby that is.
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:01 PM   #71
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It sucks because from a big race competion standpoint, TC is pretty big. Unfortunately the entries look smaller because a lot of drivers only race one class, two at the most.

The Reedy race had over 150 entries and probably that many drivers, the IIC has over 150 drivers racing TC. The Euroes gets 150 drivers. 150 does not sem like a lot, but 150 drivers is a BIG race. You get 150 drivers at an off-road electric race and you can have 450 entries. At a nitro race it can be 300.
Derek you might be missing things such as VTA and RCGT which are slower spec tires classes that do cater to the entry level driver and are fan friendly with recognizable bodies.

TC may need some work to make it the most popular class as it once was. But it is definitely not dead.
Rick big races will attract the die hards. But Oval gets more than that too, are you saying that's bigger than it appears to be?

AE is a big supporter of all the racing classes and we do our best to help with that. I pay attention to the RCGT and all that but it's small. I hope it does work I love the bodies, and what the Pan car class should have upheld...but like all classes the "racers" wanted lower bodies, and we're back to running 1/10 pan car with GTP bodies that only resemble real cars. I even said this in the beginning of the class...racers by nature ruin classes by over complicating things. If we stuck to "full scale" and even rubber tires we'd have a start.


When we talk of "popularity" I look to the local club racing and try to avoid SOCAL as an example because despite many people's thought it's not the center or what's popular. On-road is still much more popular else where and they don't get numbers. Healthy is popular at the club level and at sales at the LHS.

I'm not anti-onroad. We race it. I'm just more realistic when it comes to what is happening and what can happen. We are getting lazier by the second and on-road is expensive and takes a lot of time to do.

I actually love nitro sedan racing. They are comparible in cost to electric, go fast, sound cool and are more durable. But since there is no entry point for people to learn it can NOT work. You can't hand a new person a 50mph race car and have them survive...or drive it at home.

I also love 1/12-scale because it's simple, fast and teaches you to drive. That has been flat-lined for ever.
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:13 PM   #72
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I understand we're just talking out loud.

In a perfect world somebody can do all the testing, but we don't live in that world.

Also I would NEVER review a knock off 416. I don't support stealing ideas and making them cheaper. I'm sure Rick and AE would love to have all their R&D done and no race team and just poop out a TC5 to sell cheaper.

You say you love on-road but you're supporting the wrong end of it.

Sorry I'm not really upset at you, but pointing out how bad for the hobby that is.
I think your looking at this Chinese car a little differently than I am.

#1, it proves that a competitive car doesnt have to cost 500.00. I understand that they (who ever "they" is) didnt design the car- but who designed the other 7 cars that closely resemble it? Would it be as blatant if the markings weren't the same?

In a world where TC racing is supposedly dying because of the sheer cost of it (and i was actually part of its death-- i went to offroad last year) this car to me= says that it can work. Companies are already getting stuff from over seas or other countries.. I cant sit back and swallow that the real 416 cost any more to produce than this copy.

I am all for companies making money, and paying their employees (and drivers) top dollar- but at what cost? The cost, in my eyes, is less people who can actually afford the product.

at least the AE stuff is affordable- sort of. I actually run all of their ep 1/10th offroad stuff. I dont know why i didnt run this stuff sooner.. and I was actually going to look into the TC5 for onroad since losi-- well, theres a back story there= no need to bore you with that.. but I happened to click this chinese 416 thread.. and= im sorry- i hate to support such nonsense.. but its too good a deal to not try.

I have always been of the opinion that i would rather sell 10 things for 100.00 a piece, rather than 5 things at 200.00.

thats twice as many replacement parts, twice as many future customers, twice as many race entries... etc... twice as much money i can spend on my kids.. twice as many sets of tires i can afford..

its better for the hobby. Its a huge "check" of power. It shows the companies what can happen. If the 416(c) was 400.00 and the Tamiya piece was 450.00, it would be a different story-- but half price? Cmon.

Again, just talking out loud- absolutely no hard feelings given, or taken.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:03 PM   #73
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That's pretty untrue. You just chose to look at what became more popular than TC. Crawling grew and became a popular. So all the companies focused their marketing on that. We sponsor a Drift event, lol and have done that for years (James and Dave run it).

But to be honest I don't see onroad coming back until some things change. Price, durability, and an entry level class. (I won't even mention the cost of tires which with rubber can be 1 runs).
It may have not become a rock crawling magazine but that was the perception I had as a subscriber (right or wrong). I LOVED LOVED LOVED the mag from 2005-2007. It just seemed starting in 2008 it moved more and more away from on-road and the last issues I got all seemed to feature rock crawling stuff. Like I said right or wrong that is what I got out of it. I understand you need to publish what sells but its just not for me anymore.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:03 PM   #74
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I think your looking at this Chinese car a little differently than I am.

#1, it proves that a competitive car doesnt have to cost 500.00. I understand that they (who ever "they" is) didnt design the car- but who designed the other 7 cars that closely resemble it? Would it be as blatant if the markings weren't the same?

In a world where TC racing is supposedly dying because of the sheer cost of it (and i was actually part of its death-- i went to offroad last year) this car to me= says that it can work. Companies are already getting stuff from over seas or other countries.. I cant sit back and swallow that the real 416 cost any more to produce than this copy.

I am all for companies making money, and paying their employees (and drivers) top dollar- but at what cost? The cost, in my eyes, is less people who can actually afford the product.

at least the AE stuff is affordable- sort of. I actually run all of their ep 1/10th offroad stuff. I dont know why i didnt run this stuff sooner.. and I was actually going to look into the TC5 for onroad since losi-- well, theres a back story there= no need to bore you with that.. but I happened to click this chinese 416 thread.. and= im sorry- i hate to support such nonsense.. but its too good a deal to not try.

I have always been of the opinion that i would rather sell 10 things for 100.00 a piece, rather than 5 things at 200.00.

thats twice as many replacement parts, twice as many future customers, twice as many race entries... etc... twice as much money i can spend on my kids.. twice as many sets of tires i can afford..

its better for the hobby. Its a huge "check" of power. It shows the companies what can happen. If the 416(c) was 400.00 and the Tamiya piece was 450.00, it would be a different story-- but half price? Cmon.

Again, just talking out loud- absolutely no hard feelings given, or taken.
100% disagree. Supporting the knock offs puts the "real" companies out of business.

Ask Rick the cost of R&D and design. Yes I agree the price of TCs seems to high for me, but the market allowed it, and supported it. Now that the TC5 offered a competitive kit at way lower it should have help a market correction.

But in no way can I agree that supporting Chinese rip offs of cars designed and supporting you and tracks is good for ANYTHING but you and that company.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:08 PM   #75
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It may have not become a rock crawling magazine but that was the perception I had as a subscriber (right or wrong). I LOVED LOVED LOVED the mag from 2005-2007. It just seemed starting in 2008 it moved more and more away from on-road and the last issues I got all seemed to feature rock crawling stuff. Like I said right or wrong that is what I got out of it. I understand you need to publish what sells but its just not for me anymore.
Don't take this the wrong way, but most people go in and out of liking something. We never really had any focus on one particular class and if I had to really say what is the most content heavy it's 1/8-scale and monster trucks.

As I've mentioned we have a balance of editorial...better than anybody really. And sometimes we can only review/cover what we have. If I don't get on-road anything it can't go in. Back in 05-07 we got a new TC every month or so, and the frequency was higher. Now I get one every quarter...and the frequency is less.

But I'm 100% okay with people moving on or doing something different. That's the life of magazines, and more so in a hobby where we have 32 different sub categories of racing...and none really like each other.
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