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Old 08-29-2009, 08:50 PM   #151
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Brushless more expensive, are you kidding me? Let's compare.
Brushed motor-$40.00
Lathe_$100.00
Brushes-$4.00
Com drops, brush hood aligner, com stick, motor spray etc. $25.00

Let's say you race about once a week for a year, you'll probably go through at least 2 motors and a set of brushes every two weeks.
For one year of racing that's $80.00 for motors and $100.00 in brushes, add all the stuff up and the total is over $300.00!!!

Or, buy 1 brushless motor for $90.00.
Almost maintenance free, and if geared properly can last a couple years.
Yeah really expensive.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:03 PM   #152
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the point-- the BL motor lasts,, well... for like- ever. Motor companies are not dumb, and they know they will not be selling motors by the case anymore.. SO- the cost goes up a little. In return, I no longer have to roll to a race with 50 pairs of F brush, or 767 and a gross of springs...

Brushless and Lipo are two reasons I came back.
I never thought of it that way. It seems like BL motors might actuallly get to a point where they have hit almost a market saturation. When the sale drop off because the old folks in the game have upgraded to BL and the new RTRs will come brushless already. I know I sound like a doom sayer, but it is kinda a scary concept for compaines like Novak and Tekin whos core business is motors and ESCs.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:25 PM   #153
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No-- there will always be new technology.. there will always be the new hottest ticket.

But-- brushless is where its at. So simple. Motor never comes out of the car..
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:07 PM   #154
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Guys, I see your point about brushed motors costing way more overall than brushless. Believe me, in 25 years of rc racing I have experienced that! What, I so poorly tried to say was that for the newcomer to the sport or for someone who has been away for awhile, then the "sticker shock" of $90 for a motor and then another $120 for a speed control can be overwhelming! You are absolutely correct in stating that when you add in all the additional costs and maintenance involved with the brushed motors they end up costing way more; but many newcomers who we are trying to draw in will only look at the up-front cost and never see the big picture! I have some friends like that.
Penny-wise and pound-foolish! I would like for someone to come out with a brushless motor/esc package in the $100-$125 range to appeal to the newbies. Again, I do agree on this point; brushless is the way to go.

Also, Keith Billanti, if HPI can do the Cup Racer for $205 then there is no reason that these basic cars need to start at $300. They have proven it can be done, and that car is no stripper, it is a race car!

Keith you said that you want to compete nationally, that's great FOR YOU; however most rc racers will never do that or have any real intention of that. Most who do race are basically "club racers", I am one myself. And a simple low-cost, true scale realistic-looking car with decent power and fun to drive and race in a cost-controlled series that gives everyone a realistic chance of winning is heaven to most of us!

Remember to, that we don't want to be selfish and think only of us seasoned racers who want to go fast and have all the gizmos; that's what got on-road in trouble in the first place!! We want to appeal to the young people and the newbies that would otherwise gravitate towards off-road or some other class that they percieve as being FUN and AFFORDABLE. We need new blood in on-road and we have to start by admitting we were wrong in certain areas and then be willing to "think outside the box" and reinvent on-road racing for the masses not just the dedicated racers. Scale realism and cost controlled cars and racing classes are a huge step in the right direction!

But, and here is where the magazines and rctvlive and the manufacturers and distributors come in, this new, reinvented on-road needs to get press and publicity as much as possible to help it get up and running. Again, I can't say enough that I hope they are still monitoring this topic and will follow suit; and we on-road fans need to continue to encourage them to do so.
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Old 08-30-2009, 03:35 PM   #155
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At our local track we all use EzRun's as spec motor/ESC's.
They keep costs down and works great. Easy to maintain, reliable enough power and easy to inspect! And with Lipo cut-off built in.
No need to keep paying 90USD for a motor and 120USD for a ESC.

EzRun is Hobbywing, so why not spec their 13.5T. I belive it's same as Team Orion, Venom with others sell at much higher cost... 3300kv works great with Tamiya M03, M04, ABC Hobby and HPI Cup Racer.

For F1 class we use 13T (3000kv) and they are as fast or faster than with Sport Tuned black cans. Also reliable and easy to inspect. We have to remove fan on ESC to fit in chassi but we have no problem with overheating even inside a small F1 body!

I have run these for 1.5 year now with no mechanical failure of any kind, we even use them on drift cars with no issues.

Can't beat this complete system for under 80 USD incl shipping.

Just my .02....
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:27 AM   #156
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IMO, the racers themselves are on-road's worst enemy.

Even in our RCGT series with "slow" 17.5 motors, we almost have to have the new timing speed controls and crazy gearing to remain competitive (not that I am ).

Racers have figured out which "realistic" bodies work and which don't. The MR-S and NSX seem to dominate the field. Racers will always figure out how to go faster, and faster costs $$, no way around it. It's still a great class, if only because the spec tires last a long time!
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:26 AM   #157
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RossoTorro, I went to hobby-wing.com and looked for the EZRun motors for rc cars and saw none. Did I go to the wrong site?

Please help.
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:36 AM   #158
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There's no way around people figuring out stuff to have more advantage over others. Call it human ingenuity. Nothing will control it unless you race RTR's like the Tamiya's XB series(Radio, Batt, charger too). But even then someone will figure it out. The guys that can't be competitive are the ones that stops their growth in learning how to drive better and understand the technology involved.
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:45 AM   #159
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There's no way around people figuring out stuff to have more advantage over others. Call it human ingenuity. Nothing will control it unless you race RTR's like the Tamiya's XB series(Radio, Batt, charger too). But even then someone will figure it out. The guys that can't be competitive are the ones that stops their growth in learning how to drive better and understand the technology involved.
Agreed. Less and less people seem to have "it" these days. Whether "it" is deep pockets, patience to learn the ins and outs or....? Personally, I blame Gen Y, video games, and umm...the media (kidding)
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:02 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
RossoTorro, I went to hobby-wing.com and looked for the EZRun motors for rc cars and saw none. Did I go to the wrong site?

Please help.
http://www.hobbywing.com/english/NewsInfo.asp?id=86
This ESC...

http://www.hobbywing.com/english/Art...?ArticleID=408
Only 13T and 12T allowed...

http://www.hobbywing.com/english/Art...?ArticleID=425
The 13.5T is exellent spec motor, works with 35A ESC.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RC-car-truck-EzR...d=p3286.c0.m14
Great deal on a 13T system and exellent service!

http://cgi.ebay.com/eZrun-RC-1-10-12...d=p3286.c0.m14
This is a great deal on a 13.5T!

Lets hope it's allright to link to ebay...
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:14 PM   #161
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I have posted this link before on another thread, hope it's ok to post it again.

This is a race with F103's running 3000kv EzRuns and normal nimh batteries (Team Orion 4200SHO cells), we are faster and better now with more setup work and lipos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gq2q3ZNnLs

Since we are Euro's we do metric system, top speed is 60km/h on the 19meter straight. It's a small track but we run it ourself and we get the location for free from the city. But still, the racing is close and it's great competition.

PS. I drive the red Ferrari F310B....
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:34 PM   #162
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What I think on road could use is a class thats like slash. A RTR car, and make it spec. just like the slash, stock everything

Around here the spec slash class is huge! From kids, to novice, to experts. Obviously the expert stuff would be a all out TC, not a spec touring class for the most part. but for the kids, novice, and new guys/girls it would be a cheap class to get into and see if you like it and such. RCGT, and VTA is cool, but dumb. Because most people go out and buy the latest and greatest TC, esc, motor, lipos and it ends up being touring car, just with a different body and tires.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:09 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO View Post
What I think on road could use is a class thats like slash. A RTR car, and make it spec. just like the slash, stock everything

Around here the spec slash class is huge! From kids, to novice, to experts. Obviously the expert stuff would be a all out TC, not a spec touring class for the most part. but for the kids, novice, and new guys/girls it would be a cheap class to get into and see if you like it and such. RCGT, and VTA is cool, but dumb. Because most people go out and buy the latest and greatest TC, esc, motor, lipos and it ends up being touring car, just with a different body and tires.
It already exists. For $235 you are racing TC.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:12 PM   #164
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Yup.

Tamiya's mini might be the closest to an "on-road slash."

The problem is, if a noob wants to start out in on-road, they don't care, they just wanna go FAST. It's fun for them to zip up and down their street. Silver cans in M-03's ain't gonna impress them. So when they finally try to race with their Sprint 2, E10, or TT-01s with Mamba Maxes...they wonder why it doesn't work so well. Kind of a catch 22...
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:30 PM   #165
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Yup.

Tamiya's mini might be the closest to an "on-road slash."

The problem is, if a noob wants to start out in on-road, they don't care, they just wanna go FAST. It's fun for them to zip up and down their street. Silver cans in M-03's ain't gonna impress them. So when they finally try to race with their Sprint 2, E10, or TT-01s with Mamba Maxes...they wonder why it doesn't work so well. Kind of a catch 22...
I use Mamba Max 4600kv and 5700kv in my Tamiya TA05 IFS-R and TA05MS, they are a handful and bloody fast. New people come to track ready to start racing and we give them pointers at what works and what not. They usally does same mistakes we did and come back with TT01's and Mamba 7700 kv and 9900kv's and want to beat us with faster speeds and way way too much power, they blow their esc's and burn their motors and give up... So, yes it's a catch 22.
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