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Old 08-05-2009, 11:52 PM   #1
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Default Whats wrong with 0 degrees of front toe?

Most are run with negative front toe and sometimes toe-in.
So whats the disadvantage of 0 degree front toe? Or does it have
any advantage at all?
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
Most are run with negative front toe and sometimes toe-in.
So whats the disadvantage of 0 degree front toe? Or does it have
any advantage at all?
I guess it would be a more nuetral setting. Like normal. Like Spongebob.
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
Most are run with negative front toe and sometimes toe-in.
So whats the disadvantage of 0 degree front toe? Or does it have
any advantage at all?
if you are talking about front toe angle. There is nothing wrong with 0 degree toe!! but sometimes people find the way they set up their car they find it performs better with toe in. i personally like toe out. i usually run 1 degree toe out. i find that this gives me more steering into the corner which i like. people who have to much steer into the corner run toe in which will settle there car into the corner and gives them better steering on power out of the corner!! it is personal preference. but 0 degree is just neutral and balanced!!
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:49 PM   #4
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toe in gives you better straight line handeling but you loose turn in, toe out gives you better turn in but you lose straight line handeling, but 0 deg is not bad
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
Most are run with negative front toe and sometimes toe-in.
So whats the disadvantage of 0 degree front toe? Or does it have
any advantage at all?
0 degree front toe does not scrub the tires, whereas toe-in or -out will scrub the tires (and therefore speed) to a small degree. If everything else is up to snuff your straight-line stability and initial turn in should not need toe adjustment to get it right. There are some highly successful racers, however, who like a little toe-out on TC. Personal preference, and this is modified where they really do need the extra initial turn in.
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:41 PM   #6
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Ok, thanks for the inputs. Ill just set my front toe angle to 0 degrees since
I mostly run on straights.
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:40 PM   #7
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What you have to remember is that the toe changes while driving, and 0 degrees of toe when measured statically typically results into a small amount of toe out while moving forward.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirtybird View Post
What you have to remember is that the toe changes while driving, and 0 degrees of toe when measured statically typically results into a small amount of toe out while moving forward.

Actually I think it can fluctuate more than that (i.e. from toe-in to -out). Depending on whether the car is on or off power, the toe can be out, in or anywhere in between. To check what your range of toe is, you need to have a setup board, take a reading with the wheels pulled back (by hand; radio on just to make sure they stay put) as far as play/slop will allow it, then pull the wheels (again by hand) the other way and take another reading. If your range is narrower than 2 degrees of toe you're doing very well in my books. I am usually aiming for a play of +/- 1 degree out/in, so theoretically I would have zero under "normal" conditions.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:04 PM   #9
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Nothing wrong with 0 toe.

Everyone has very accurately described the different affects of toe. But you really need to try it for yourself. Front toe drastically changes the way your car drives. Run your car with with all different settings. You will see the differences for yourself and make your own decision on what you like best.

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Old 08-06-2009, 11:06 PM   #10
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Years ago, I ran with a little front toe-in. Under acceleration, the wheel align itself to 0 degree of toe because of the slop. But I dont like how it looks like
with the body installed. Recently I tried a little front toe-out, the steering is
sharper but kinda sensitive to road surface irregularities, a small road dip
sends my car a little off the line. Tonight I will try +/- 1 degree out/in.
Thanks Niznai.

Any advice on how to do toe adjustment without a setup station? Im just
using a steel ruler and new wheels and a calliper.
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
.....
Recently I tried a little front toe-out, the steering is
sharper but kinda sensitive to road surface irregularities, a small road dip
sends my car a little off the line. Tonight I will try +/- 1 degree out/in.
Thanks Niznai.

Any advice on how to do toe adjustment without a setup station? Im just
using a steel ruler and new wheels and a calliper.
That toe change between on and off power is acceptable.

It seems however that you have an unacceptable problem with bump steer (i.e. toe angle changes associated with suspension travel). Adjust to make sure this does not happen anymore (shims/washers under/on top of steering links either at steering block end or steering link end). Check on setup station. After this try again on track and there should be no more issue with bumps unsettling the steering.

Without setup station is very very fiddly and unreliable. I used in the past a couple of long stainless steel rulers attached to setup wheels (you know, the aluminium skinny wheels) and measured the distance between these at the front and at the back at a set distance from the hub, but you don't get degrees, you get milimetres. You can convert between the two, but you need to be careful as errors do propagate.

ask some nice soul at the track to let you use their setup station and it should take you the better part of five minutes. Make sure your steering throw is equal left to right and the steering is centered with the servo at zero trim, and nice arm to link angles (depending on the car these may not be 90 degrees).

All this stuff takes longer to explain than to do on a station.

Good luck.
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Last edited by niznai; 08-07-2009 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:27 AM   #12
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Thanks for the advice but Im still saving up for a set up station.

Can I use alignment wheels instead?

Regarding bumpsteer, how will I know if I how much shim to add?
Should the steering links stay 100% horizontal after shimming?
Any baseline guide?
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
.....
Can I use alignment wheels instead?

Regarding bumpsteer, how will I know if I how much shim to add?
Should the steering links stay 100% horizontal after shimming?
Any baseline guide?
Yes, but as I explained, you need some sort of device to extend the wheel surface to measure against (the rulers I mentioned above). The rulers basically follow the straight ahead line for each of the wheels and toe is the angle between the rulers, but because you can not measure this angle (or it is very difficult), you measure the distance between the rulers say 10cm in front of the wheels and 10cm behind the wheels and compare the two values. This is made difficult by the inherent slop/play everywhere in the steering/camber linkages, steering knuckle (blocks) bearings, etc.

You need to add until on full suspension travel there is no toe change.

More or less, yes.

There is none.
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Old 08-07-2009, 03:20 AM   #14
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I think I get what you mean. The front of the wheel should have the same
distance as the rear to get 0 degrees.

Regarding bumpsteer, If I shim it on full suspension travel, wont it be
misaligned again when settles?
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:39 AM   #15
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You get used to the feel of the car and how you prefer it in time I would say.

For example, front toe out on a very high bite track can be too aggressive for some, and in some cases you could even grip roll if you tried to carry too much speed into a corner and the front of the car was too soft.

As said, it is all about trial and error, and what suits you best
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