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Old 08-04-2009, 04:29 PM   #1
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Default Xray springs what does the 2.4/2.6 equal in pound/wt?

Hi guys, what grams or weight do the xray springs equal to thanks

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Old 08-04-2009, 05:08 PM   #2
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:54 PM   #3
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its hard to compare the black springs to the old ones because the black ones are linear rate, whereas the old ones are progressive rate.

To convert from "C" in N/mm to lb/in you multiply by 5.71.

eg.
C=2.2 => 12.5 lb/in
C=2.4 => 13.7 lb/in
C=2.6 => 14.8 lb/in
C=2.8 => 16.0 lb/in
C=3.0 => 17.1 lb/in
C=3.2 => 18.3 lb/in
C=3.4 => 19.4 lb/in
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameover View Post
its hard to compare the black springs to the old ones because the black ones are linear rate, whereas the old ones are progressive rate.

To convert from "C" in N/mm to lb/in you multiply by 5.71.

eg.
C=2.2 => 12.5 lb/in
C=2.4 => 13.7 lb/in
C=2.6 => 14.8 lb/in
C=2.8 => 16.0 lb/in
C=3.0 => 17.1 lb/in
C=3.2 => 18.3 lb/in
C=3.4 => 19.4 lb/in
So why does the following chart put them further up?

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Old 08-05-2009, 07:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameover View Post
its hard to compare the black springs to the old ones because the black ones are linear rate, whereas the old ones are progressive rate.
does anyone claiming progressive rates actually know how one is made?

if so, please point out what i am missing, because i don't believe i've never seen a progressive spring for a 1/10 touring car. hpi came close, with what ended up as a dual rate spring, but i have not seen any of the standard types of construction methods for progressive springs employed elsewhere. what design feature am i overlooking in cases where folks claim a varying spring rate?

here's a good simple writeup about it: http://www.stockcarproducts.com/spgtech.htm

and btw - the original xray springs are much softer than listed anyway (except for the lt-red ones), so that chart could end up useless if the new black ones are actually accurate to their claims.
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:02 AM   #6
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i don't have the old springs so i'm only repeating what i was told about their progressive rate. The fit into that chart is related to the older springs not actually being a true 15lb/in spring etc. i believe, hence the progressive/dual rate/whatever i was told.

I tested the black springs myself, they were all within a few % tolerance of the C figure and all linear rate from no load to the limit of my 2kg digital scales.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameover View Post
i don't have the old springs so i'm only repeating what i was told about their progressive rate. The fit into that chart is related to the older springs not actually being a true 15lb/in spring etc. i believe, hence the progressive/dual rate/whatever i was told.

I tested the black springs myself, they were all within a few % tolerance of the C figure and all linear rate from no load to the limit of my 2kg digital scales.
Hve you tried those tests with another manufacters springs to see how they compare?
It would be nice to know how Schumachers 14lbs (white) etc measure up with how linear they are.

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Old 08-05-2009, 12:01 PM   #8
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It would be nice to know how Schumachers 14lbs (white) etc measure up with how linear they are.

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the whole schumacher set is heavier than rated. i've tested them multiple times over a few sets. they are very consistent. but consistently heavy.

white ~ 15
blue ~ 17.5
green ~ 21
red ~ 22
yellow ~24.5
purple ~ 29

probably not the right thread to continue with this kind of data. email me if you'd like: [email protected]
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaball View Post
does anyone claiming progressive rates actually know how one is made?

if so, please point out what i am missing, because i don't believe i've never seen a progressive spring for a 1/10 touring car. hpi came close, with what ended up as a dual rate spring, but i have not seen any of the standard types of construction methods for progressive springs employed elsewhere. what design feature am i overlooking in cases where folks claim a varying spring rate?

here's a good simple writeup about it: http://www.stockcarproducts.com/spgtech.htm

and btw - the original xray springs are much softer than listed anyway (except for the lt-red ones), so that chart could end up useless if the new black ones are actually accurate to their claims.
Seaball - thanks for not falling for the marketing hype. You are 100% correct. The original Xray colored springs were linear. As longs as the spring is a homogenous material, with constant pitch, and constant diameter - the spring must be linear. I measured some of the original colored X-ray springs (see tryhard's website) and they are indeed linear and softer than what they are rated at.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:16 PM   #10
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Seaball - thanks for not falling for the marketing hype. You are 100% correct.
i am amazed at how much this happens. (that i am 100% correct ) no, the willingness of people to believe blindly ...
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:42 PM   #11
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Can someone please do the same for HPI Silver & Gold springs as these are the springs I keep seeing a lot of on different cars.

i.e. Are they still very linear and if so what is their true rating?

Good work guys, this thread is actually proving usefull.

Thanks
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Can someone please do the same for HPI Silver & Gold springs as these are the springs I keep seeing a lot of on different cars.

i.e. Are they still very linear and if so what is their true rating?

Good work guys, this thread is actually proving usefull.

Thanks
Skiddins
HPI gold and silver are indeed linear (see pics). An averaged measured value of 17.49 and 16.21 lb/in respectively. A little bit off from published values of 19.04 and 16.91 lb/in. See the Tryhard website for other measured springs.
Attached Thumbnails
Xray springs what does the 2.4/2.6 equal in pound/wt?-hpi-gold.jpg   Xray springs what does the 2.4/2.6 equal in pound/wt?-hpi-silver.jpg  
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:25 PM   #13
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in the thread i made on the Xray forum a few months ago, read the post by David_Ehrbar (7th post) about having tested the old springs and found them progressive at higher load. He was the same guy who told me about the new springs but i tested them anyway, lol

http://forum.teamxray.com/viewtopic.php?t=9144
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:17 PM   #14
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If most of these springs seem to be consistantly wrong, i.e. they give the same values when tested but not what the manufacturer claims, why don't they give their actual values instead of helping mess with peoples minds when changing between springs.

If what we're getting so far is true, there very little, if any, difference between the HPI Gold and Schumacher blue.

Also makes me wonder why Schumacher don't make some different rate springs to fill the gap between white and blue!

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Old 08-06-2009, 07:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Also makes me wonder why Schumacher don't make some different rate springs to fill the gap between white and blue!

Skiddins
when pw was on the u.s. team, he indicated that the idea was to design in-between rates to the associated line-up. they are the same length and diameter and are not duplicates, so that might actually be true.

unfortunately, not only do the ae springs vary some, but the schu springs apparently didn't turn out correctly. why are they listed as such? probably because the packaging came out early, and the actual wire used was stiffer than the designers had planned on (or the supplier had advertised). in short, everyone's springs are so bad, that there probably was no point in relabeling them. that is why the best advice (most times) is to stick with the same mfr's springs, as they may have an offset from listed, but the steps will be going in the correct direction.

(consider yourself lucky that you are not using corally springs).
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