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Old 08-02-2009, 05:03 PM   #1
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Default New to Touring Sedan... A little help please :)

I have only been in this hobby for 8 months or so and I started with off-road trucks but now I'm going to venture into on-road.

The "beginner" class at my track is 1/10 Stock Rubber Sedan running 13.5. Since most everyone runs the XRAY, I purchased a used one from a forum member.

I spent all day today at the track watching the races and talking to the guys to see what they're running. I gained alot of knowledge but I still have a few questions:

1) If I did not want to go with the pre-mounted rubber tires (Jaco Blue) that everyone has and I wanted to get a different wheel/tire combo, can this be done? The wheels I believe are 28mm but I can only find 26mm. Where can I go to get wheels/tires?

2) Why does everyone run slicks on the carpet? It seems that a treaded tire or even a rally tire would have much better grip...

3) I think most of the guys are running the one-way in the front but since I'm very new, would running the front diff be more foregiving to driver errors? Is it easier to drive (learn to drive) with or without the front diff?

4) I had my heart set on VTA but my track does not run it. Since I won't be racing for a while, can I go ahead and put on the VTA tires and body but set the chassis up like everyone else? Would this be "stupid" since I'm not practicing for VTA?

5) I saw a few guys install a fan (rigged it) to cool their motors. Do I really need that or can I leave the fan on the ESC (I have the GTB)?

6) Finally, my car came with two different looking diffs... one has solid axles and the other has axles that are hollow... not sure how to explain. What's the difference?

I know it's a few questions but your help is always appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:47 PM   #2
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We run the same class at our outdoor asphalt track here in NZ. IN response to your questions (as a relatively newcomer to on-road myself):

1. Most touring tyres are 26mm. I'd say if the fast guys are running the Jaco Blues, that's what you should do too. They have probably spent a lot of time getting to the point of the "right" tire for the track. That's not to say as your skills progress you can't experiment, but why add another variable when you are new.

2. The carpet on-road cars are run on is a very tight knit carpet, almost like felt. Foams with additive stick to that stuff like GLUE!

3. Diff's are a lot easier to learn on. A one-way is faster if you drive without a lot of braking, but with a 13.5 I can see you swapping ends most of the race with a one-way.

4. Run what you want while you're getting into it. You may find if you get down there with the VTA and others see it, you may get enough interest to start a class

5. You don't need a fan on the motor if you gear it to not overheat. When starting out reliability is more valuable than speed i.m.o.

6. One set is probably an aftermarket light-weight set. I think X-Ray do them on their cars, most companies do some sort of aftermarket out-drive.

Biggest thing I can offer in addition is get as much track-time as you can, and only fidget with set-up outside of factorysettings when you know how your car feels. No point in adding camber or toe if you don't know if that's causing you problems
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:07 PM   #3
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Wow... thank you so much for all the answers; very helpful. I do have a quick question with regards to VTA... would running the VTA tires/wheels provide more or less traction than the touring tires (slicks)? The reason I ask is that I'd love to see a VTA class get started but in the case that it does not, will I be hurting myself by practicing using VTA wheels/tires? Thanks again for all your help.

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Originally Posted by JR007 View Post
We run the same class at our outdoor asphalt track here in NZ. IN response to your questions (as a relatively newcomer to on-road myself):

1. Most touring tyres are 26mm. I'd say if the fast guys are running the Jaco Blues, that's what you should do too. They have probably spent a lot of time getting to the point of the "right" tire for the track. That's not to say as your skills progress you can't experiment, but why add another variable when you are new.

2. The carpet on-road cars are run on is a very tight knit carpet, almost like felt. Foams with additive stick to that stuff like GLUE!

3. Diff's are a lot easier to learn on. A one-way is faster if you drive without a lot of braking, but with a 13.5 I can see you swapping ends most of the race with a one-way.

4. Run what you want while you're getting into it. You may find if you get down there with the VTA and others see it, you may get enough interest to start a class

5. You don't need a fan on the motor if you gear it to not overheat. When starting out reliability is more valuable than speed i.m.o.

6. One set is probably an aftermarket light-weight set. I think X-Ray do them on their cars, most companies do some sort of aftermarket out-drive.

Biggest thing I can offer in addition is get as much track-time as you can, and only fidget with set-up outside of factorysettings when you know how your car feels. No point in adding camber or toe if you don't know if that's causing you problems
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t4tx View Post
I have only been in this hobby for 8 months or so and I started with off-road trucks but now I'm going to venture into on-road.

The "beginner" class at my track is 1/10 Stock Rubber Sedan running 13.5. Since most everyone runs the XRAY, I purchased a used one from a forum member.

I spent all day today at the track watching the races and talking to the guys to see what they're running. I gained alot of knowledge but I still have a few questions:

1) If I did not want to go with the pre-mounted rubber tires (Jaco Blue) that everyone has and I wanted to get a different wheel/tire combo, can this be done? The wheels I believe are 28mm but I can only find 26mm. Where can I go to get wheels/tires?

2) Why does everyone run slicks on the carpet? It seems that a treaded tire or even a rally tire would have much better grip...

3) I think most of the guys are running the one-way in the front but since I'm very new, would running the front diff be more foregiving to driver errors? Is it easier to drive (learn to drive) with or without the front diff?

4) I had my heart set on VTA but my track does not run it. Since I won't be racing for a while, can I go ahead and put on the VTA tires and body but set the chassis up like everyone else? Would this be "stupid" since I'm not practicing for VTA?

5) I saw a few guys install a fan (rigged it) to cool their motors. Do I really need that or can I leave the fan on the ESC (I have the GTB)?

6) Finally, my car came with two different looking diffs... one has solid axles and the other has axles that are hollow... not sure how to explain. What's the difference?

I know it's a few questions but your help is always appreciated. Thanks.
1) if all the drivers are running jaco blues on their car, its for a reason, the tires probably handle the best for that track or it could be a track rule if you are running that class. its like nascar, they can can only run goodyear slicks.the competition would be unfair if one person ran better tires than the other. most likely that track or hobby shop sells the tires that eveyone uses. i think this answers your 1st and 2nd question.
2) you say all the drivers have one ways in the cars. again, its probably what works. try different set ups. see what works for you.( diff,spool or one-way)3) VTA and TC are 2 different classes and chassis set ups. if you want to run VTA and the track you run at does not. i suggest you find a track that does. what i would do is keep my xray for TC and buy a less expensive car for VTA(hpi sprint, hotbodies cyclone s, tamiya ta05 or tto1). these are some examples of low budget cars. as far as taking the fan off of your esc... i would not recommend it. if it came that way leave it that way. although you can put a fan over your motor for cooling. i hope this answers all of your questions. happy racing!!!
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:13 PM   #5
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1. Rubber racing tires for electric touring cars are 24mm wide. Most drift or treaded tires are 26mm wide, which is what is used in classes like RCGT. If you want to be competitive at all you need to use 24mm slicks. If most guys are running Jaco blues there is probably a reason for it, because they work the best. Some clubs will use a spec tire, but if your local track was using one I'm sure you would have heard about it while you were there. Try the local hobby shop for tires first. If they don't have them there are tons of online stores like amainhobbies.com or nexusracing.com.

2. Slicks have the best grip.

3. Front one ways make the car very responsive. Start with a ball diff up front. Once your used to driving the car with that you can experiment with the on way to see if your faster with it or the ball diff.

4. Using VTA tires and bodies will make the car handle a lot different than racing slicks and a racing body, so any setup work you do with VTA stuff will fly out the window as soon as you change the tires and body.

5. If your gearing is correct you won't need a fan. A fan can let you get a little bit more speed out of a motor, but since your new to touring you probably won't be pushing hard enough to generate that kind of heat in the motor.

6. The diff with the solid out drives are stronger, but heavier and were introduced to handle high output mod motors more reliably than the swiss cheese light weight outdrives that your other diff has. Use either one, you won't be able to notice a huge difference between the two. Just make sure the plastic blades that clip onto the drive shaft pins don't wear all the way through or else the steel pin on the drive shaft will contact the aluminum outdrive slot and wear it out very very fast.
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:25 PM   #6
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Again... thanks to all of you for the really great advice... and very prompt I might add!

I will stick to the touring setup and run the car with the diff up front at first till I get used to it.

Although the class I will eventually race in runs 13.5, I bought a used 21.5 motor in order to limit myself and clean my lines, entry, exit first before trying to go fast.

What do you recommend for a pinion/spur combo? I'm running 2c 7.4 LiPo and the GTB 21.5 b/l. I don't need alot of speed at this point. Thanks.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t4tx View Post
Again... thanks to all of you for the really great advice... and very prompt I might add!

I will stick to the touring setup and run the car with the diff up front at first till I get used to it.

Although the class I will eventually race in runs 13.5, I bought a used 21.5 motor in order to limit myself and clean my lines, entry, exit first before trying to go fast.

What do you recommend for a pinion/spur combo? I'm running 2c 7.4 LiPo and the GTB 21.5 b/l. I don't need alot of speed at this point. Thanks.
First thing, WheelNut has it right, those Jaco Blues are likely their premounted rubber tire, & MANY tracks are beginning to use them(removes a lot of doubt over what insert to use, & the tires really do work well at MANY tracks, I prefer them myself on carpet). And It is an EXCELLENT idea to start running with a front diff, it is MUCH more forgiving(& will be easier on parts too, when you hit things, which we've ALL done when we started learning how to drive a touring car), & then once you've gotten comfortable driving & use a smooth line, then it'll be a good time to add the one-way. Now about VTA stuff, those tires are decent(a good setup for the Jacos will work well with a 21.5 motor & the VTA tires), but I don't think those tires would handle a 13.5 well(the standard tires we use are DEFINITELY softer). And about gearing, if you're going to practice with the 21.5, then I'd suggest srating with the suggested gearing from the VTA rules, a final drive ratio of 4.2:1 works very well with that motor, & it's not too fast to control(not as quick as a 13.5, of course, but fast enough to get a feel for it....
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:52 AM   #8
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Thank you very much for your feedback. Everyone here has been really helpful. It's much appreciated.

How do I calculate the final drive ratio for the 007? I know there's no tranny so output ratio may not play a role, but just want to make sure... do I just divide the spur by the pinion or is there an output multiplier for the pulley?

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Originally Posted by Grizzbob View Post
First thing, WheelNut has it right, those Jaco Blues are likely their premounted rubber tire, & MANY tracks are beginning to use them(removes a lot of doubt over what insert to use, & the tires really do work well at MANY tracks, I prefer them myself on carpet). And It is an EXCELLENT idea to start running with a front diff, it is MUCH more forgiving(& will be easier on parts too, when you hit things, which we've ALL done when we started learning how to drive a touring car), & then once you've gotten comfortable driving & use a smooth line, then it'll be a good time to add the one-way. Now about VTA stuff, those tires are decent(a good setup for the Jacos will work well with a 21.5 motor & the VTA tires), but I don't think those tires would handle a 13.5 well(the standard tires we use are DEFINITELY softer). And about gearing, if you're going to practice with the 21.5, then I'd suggest srating with the suggested gearing from the VTA rules, a final drive ratio of 4.2:1 works very well with that motor, & it's not too fast to control(not as quick as a 13.5, of course, but fast enough to get a feel for it....
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by t4tx View Post
....
do I just divide the spur by the pinion or is there an output multiplier for the pulley?
Yes.
Divide then the diff pulley by the centre pulley (number of teeth) and finally multiply the two numbers:

(pinion/spur)x(centre pulley/diff pulley)

very easy to put in an excel spreadsheet.

cheers.
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:37 PM   #10
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My T2'007 came with a nice chart showing the FDRs that result from different pinion/spur combos. If you didnt get that with your car you can download the chart here: http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/sho...p?file_id=2531
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