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Old 07-31-2009, 08:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by razzor View Post
The point is every city in the world has dangerous places where you are best not to go.
Keep away from the danger spots and things should be fine.
Critics raise the example of one high profile driver being pulled over while driving and robbed when at the 2002 EP Touring Car Worlds.
It happened and was undoubtedly traumatic for those concerned, however a few golden rules of travel were broken in that misadventure and really, simply invited trouble.
I think that's the whole point of being a "safe" country/city etc. There are no places you should avoid, people you shouldn't talk to, etc, etc.

On another point blaming someone for having been robbed is like blaming a woman for having been raped.

A safe country is one where you can go anywhere, do anything at any time and no random shit happens to you. If you can't guarantee that about a country, then it's not safe. From that point of view I think it's hard to challenge any European country (or better put EU).

I have visited a lot of countries in this world on the other hand, and would have little hesitation to go to some blacklisted by most people. I have even been robbed whilst overseas, but I would still go back. Are these countries safe though? I am sure they are if you "watch out" (and I learned to). But that condition in itself it's a sign something is wrong. That's why I agree if someone considers this or that country not safe, well, it's their right to do so.

Sure, coming from the americans it sounds a bit rich to say some country is unsafe, when they have probably one of the highest criminality rates in the world, but then again, they probably finally started to have some inkling the world doesn't love them as much as they think they deserve.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:08 AM   #17
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I disagree.

There is no city (notice I say city, not country) in the world that is 100% safe to go EVERYWHERE

Unfortunately
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by razzor View Post
a post i found.

Point to Ponder ......
THE MOANING STARTS (AGAIN)
ONCE AGAIN we’re hearing moans from Europe and USA regarding the venues for three of the upcoming IFMAR World Championships during 2009-10.
The events are the 1:5 On Road Worlds and 1:10 EP Off Road Worlds, both due to be held at the TRAP facility in Pretoria, South Africa and the 1:8 GP Off Road Worlds at Pattaya, Thailand.

The complaints, mainly from Europe, regarding the 1:5 Worlds venue, is that South Africa will mean incurring excess luggage costs.
That is true but laughable. No matter where the 1:5 Worlds are held excess luggage costs will come into play (except of course, Europe, where the complaints are coming from).
“Extra costs” complaints– from the people who have chosen Lostallo, Switzerland, to host the 1:8 GP On Road World Championship.

Lostallo, one of the most expensive places in Europe and in the middle of nowhere.
That’s fine though, it’s in our own backyard, who cares about the rest of the world seems to be their attitude.

The moaning from USA in particular regarding the EP 1:10 Off Road Worlds to be held at TRAP the week following the 1:5 Worlds is nauseating.
“Do we have to travel outside USA?” seems the most regular question from their officials, followed of course by “it’s too dangerous”.

On what basis they claim the latter is unknown, they have never been to these places but we guess perception is reality.

IFMAR is made up of four regions and each region has, in rotation, the opportunity to host a World Championship.

Anyone who has visited Thailand and, in this instance, Pattaya, knows they are as safe there as they are at home.

Our first hand experience of South Africa leads us to the same conclusion.
Leading into the 2006 IFMAR 1:8 GP Off Road World Championships the Americans in particular were vocal about the Indonesian venue–one ignorant magazine editor even
suggested a boycott of the event and holding an alternative Worlds–in the USA of course.

As Mark Pavidis–one of the few USA drivers who did venture to Indonesia to compete and who won that World Championship–
said afterwards of those who didn’t attend, “they missedthe best World Championship I have attended”.

The hory old excuse–it’s a dangerous place–is specious. Sure, South Africa can be dangerous but then again, so can any location.
Let’s not forget USA executed one of its own citizens for blowing up a building and causing the deaths of more than 200 of its citizens.
And there was the Atlanta Olympic Games bombings.
How about the late 1990’s IFMAR 1:10 EP Off Road World Championships in Los Angeles with its muggings and seedy neighbourhood?

The point is every city in the world has dangerous places where you are best not to go.
Keep away from the danger spots and things should be fine.
Critics raise the example of one high profile driver being pulled over while driving and robbed when at the 2002 EP Touring Car Worlds.
It happened and was undoubtedly traumatic for those concerned, however a few golden rules of travel were broken in that misadventure and really, simply invited trouble.

Travelling to other countries outside your comfort zone can challenge you, however the rewards in terms of experiencing different cultures, sights, sounds and food while all the time joining
everyone else in doing what we like to do best–racing RC cars–is priceless.

TITC at RCS, Bangkok, Thailand, is a perfect example of this and is why it is so popular.
We hope IFMAR has the balls to tell those complaintants that the FAMAR and FEMCA regions are entitled to host their World Championships and the events will be held at the venues chosen.
Arguments against the venues are specious at best and should be treated as such.

Some believe FAMAR should not host any Worlds or be included in one of the other regions, however that is an argument for another time.
As IFMAR’s rules stand, South Africa and Thailand are entitled to host these events and objections simply display the ignorance and/or selfishness of those making them.
I have read this article and it is pretty much right on. The only thing I disagree with is the part about Indonesia. There were specific travel warnings issued by the U.S. government that said to avoid travel there. So I can see why people would not want to go. But that is another argument.

There are no such warnings for South Africa, and travel there seems to be like anywhere else as long as you are smart and listen to tha advice of the locals. When I drive north through LA there is a stretch of I-5 where I will not get off the freeway to use the restroom.

The intersting part of all of this is that the 1/8 off road Worlds are in Thailand next year and if you read the U.S. goverment travel info for there and for South Africa, they is not much difference. And I bet that race is fully supported.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:32 AM   #19
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The only incident then was Masami getting mugged or a attempted hijacking.
That issue wasnt due to safety concerns for the venue but a bit of bad luck being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If i remember correct he got lost going to the airport or something like that.
It was on the way from the plane, day 1, hour 1, minute 3.
He and his father picked up a rental car at the airport and got robbed by false policemen already in the garage. They didn´t even left the building.
But there where others who got robbed the week after when it was 1:10 touring as well. One was IFMAR president Dallas Mathiesen. But that didn´t work out as planned for the poor robber. Dallas is a VERY fit man, and took him to the police office. Quite brused. The robber that is...
I was stopped by "the police" there once, but didn´t let them take me to the side road, and I only opened the side windows like 1 inch, to be able to talk with them, and I have my foot on the throttle all the time. They let me go
Another "incident" was when Reto Köning and I beleve Andy Krämer from LRP was at Snowbirds, or maybe Cleveland a few years ago. They got robbed by some guys with guns in there hotelroom. They gave them the money....
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:43 PM   #20
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This thread makes me recall the first time a friend of mine from Finland came to America...to Los Angeles for a trade show. He was afraid it wouldn't be safe for him to walk around on the street - somehow the PR on America there at the time was that we were all walking around with six-guns strapped to our belts and shooting each other in the streets. A byproduct of the news only ever reporting drive-bys and murders, I guess.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:47 PM   #21
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One of our designers at Volvo, worked for Ford for 4 years. Lived in Detroit. One of "the world most dangeros citys". Nothing happend. Came back to "safe old Sweden" in June, and got knocked down with broken nose the 2:nd day.
Shit happends everywhere.
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:28 PM   #22
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In New Zealand we have alot of immigrants from South Africa and more and more are coming all the time. I deal with these immigrants everyday through work and we have South African friends. The number one reason they tell me why they left South Africa is safety. They all have very horrific stories of things that have happened to them or people they know.
One thing that always comes up is to never stop at traffic lights in your car at night time. Just drive straight through the red light.

In saying all of this South Africa is still a country I would visit but I would only do it with the uptmost caution and probably only with a local guide.
I cannot say this with all of the other countries I have visited and raced in over the years.
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:45 AM   #23
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I heard that all of the major race teams were pulling out of the 2009 off road worlds....I also heard that there were only a handful of entries. Could the event still go on under these conditions/silent protests? Anyone with solid info please step up...I would love to hear whats up.
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Old 08-30-2009, 03:43 AM   #24
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It is an unfortunate fact of life that in general terms Americans will not travel. Look at the poor attendance at the 2008 Onroad Worlds in Thailand. Not sure what the excuse was then .. I think it was that there was no one interested in electric on road. The few that came had a great time.

Possibly it comes from what is a fairly conservative nation ... they are not happy outside their comfort zone and are very unfamiliar with other cultures. One only has to see them travelling abroad to see their general discomfort in other cultures.

No doubt I will get flamed for this post. It is not meant as an insult .. just an observation
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:02 AM   #25
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It is an unfortunate fact of life that in general terms Americans will not travel. Look at the poor attendance at the 2008 Onroad Worlds in Thailand. Not sure what the excuse was then .. I think it was that there was no one interested in electric on road. The few that came had a great time.

Possibly it comes from what is a fairly conservative nation ... they are not happy outside their comfort zone and are very unfamiliar with other cultures. One only has to see them travelling abroad to see their general discomfort in other cultures.

No doubt I will get flamed for this post
I agree 100%, you most likely will get flamed.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:54 AM   #26
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I heard that all of the major race teams were pulling out of the 2009 off road worlds....I also heard that there were only a handful of entries. Could the event still go on under these conditions/silent protests? Anyone with solid info please step up...I would love to hear whats up.
Entry list, as of August 13th:

http://www.trap.co.za/offroadep/inde...:news&Itemid=9
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:36 AM   #27
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Superficially, the lack of attendance at recent non-developed-world events can be attributed to costs and safety.

But what also seems apparent is that the major teams don't need to go around the world to win big races anymore. In the US, there seem to be a number of big races that are a bigger PR coup to win. Similarly in Europe, winning the Euros against a field of 120 is much more credible than winning the worlds against a field of 40.

The longer that this trend for low attendances goes on, the less relevant the IFMAR championships will become.

It seems a backwards step to suggest it - but if IFMAR wants to retain the perception that the World's is the biggest prize, they should run them all in the US, Western Europe and Japan.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
Superficially, the lack of attendance at recent non-developed-world events can be attributed to costs and safety.

But what also seems apparent is that the major teams don't need to go around the world to win big races anymore. In the US, there seem to be a number of big races that are a bigger PR coup to win. Similarly in Europe, winning the Euros against a field of 120 is much more credible than winning the worlds against a field of 40.

The longer that this trend for low attendances goes on, the less relevant the IFMAR championships will become.

It seems a backwards step to suggest it - but if IFMAR wants to retain the perception that the World's is the biggest prize, they should run them all in the US, Western Europe and Japan.
There was more than 40 at the Worlds in Thailand .. just no Americans. When they can get over the idea that the World has to come to them then racing will improve. Interestingly enough the winner of the Euros now lives in the third world
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:17 AM   #29
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Plus, I just watched the movies "Hostel" and "Broken down Palace"
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:25 AM   #30
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The lack of Americans I think has more to do with money than other reasons. Take the recent 1/8th onroad worlds in Switzerland. No safety or venue problems there, yet only 5 or 6 went. The reigning National champ didn't go because his sponsors refused to pay for it. There just are not that many paid professional drivers here anymore and the privateers can't afford it. If you had a choice between running a worlds and nothing else or running two or three big races in your own country, what would you choose.
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