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View Poll Results: Do you feel that such a grid would be a positive addition to your event?
Yes. The point of qualifying is to get the better position on the grid. 84 80.77%
No. Not digging the challenge. 20 19.23%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-28-2009, 10:46 AM   #61
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I'm surprised no one has suggested rolling starts in the main. Many forms of real racing use rolling starts, so why don't we do that in R/C? I could understand when electric cars had just enough battery to make a 4-5 minute run. With lipo, most classes could run an 8 minute main or longer.

By having a rolling start, you reward drivers for good qualifying as it should be, but can still have a tight field. Some tracks use rolling starts in VTA mains and it actually works well once everyone understands how to maintain a gap between cars before the tone goes off.

Winning the main should be about the person who drove the best race, not the person who took out 1/2 the field on the 1st lap.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Winning the main should be about the person who drove the best race, not the person who took out 1/2 the field on the 1st lap.
Part of driving the best race is getting off the line quicker than your competitors (choosing your strategy), taking advantage of any pileups, avoiding them, and avoiding being taken out by other drivers.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
I'm surprised no one has suggested rolling starts in the main.
I was going to suggest that but at our track at least it would never happen. Allycat has proven very unreliable for us and I am totally sure it would fail in some spectacular fashion and trigger the start after half the field has gone through the bridge already.

But I agree, at the moment I see rolling starts as the most serious contender for a good start technique.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:06 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
The U.S. doesn't do driving penalties.

I am not sure what is going on with R/C racing these days. First we have to have so many classes just so more drivers get the satisfaction of making "the main". And now we want to spread the grid out so much that there is no possibility of contact in the first turn.

Maybe racing should be turned into a series of controlled practice sessions with no winners or loser.
Come on Rick. We're really not talking about changing the A at the worlds here. Were talking about some experimentation at club races were you, Paul and Kevin are not the focus. This doesnt mean the that racing is in the crapper.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:14 AM   #65
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When you call something an "event" I take that as something larger than a club race. Perhaps I misunderstood the poll question.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:33 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
I'm surprised no one has suggested rolling starts in the main.
What Eli suggested on the first page was basically a rolling start. He said if anyone switched positions during the first lap the race would be restarted.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:54 AM   #67
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Understandable.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by hairy View Post


o.k if you believe you can make up 30 meters on me with equal cars in 5 minutes then you really should be a factory driver for several manufacturers. think about it carefully that distance is hard to make up if the first driver makes no mistakes.
In my region, a 30m advantage is significant to only about 10% of the racers. The other 90% are so inconsistent that they and their competition swap those distances practically every minute due to driving mistakes. Put another way, only 10% of my region's racers can consistently finish within 15m of their benchmark run. That's why I don't consider putting last place 30m behind the leader at the start to have a nullifying effect on the race.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:35 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327 View Post
If the drivers toward the front of the grid want to avoid getting collected in the first turn, they should try to make it a point to be the first ones leaving at the tone. Otherwise, spreading the field at the start does nothing more than turn the most exciting portion of the race into fast-paced parade laps; but if that's what it takes to keep attendance numbers up during these tough times, so be it...
That's a gross and inaccurate generalization of what happens at the start of a race. The guys who launch well have two options: put an aggressive and dangerous pass on those who launched poorly ahead of them, or lift and leave themselves vulnerable to the dive bombers. Both options most frequently result in a collision.

Which brings me back to my thesis in this thread: Small grid spacing frequently results in an unavoidable collision, the result of which is out of the racer's control and often nullifies all qualifying efforts. Large grid spacing gives a racer, whom launches well, control of what happens in the first corner.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:54 PM   #70
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I'm trying to picture a starting grid with almost 100' between the pole position and the last place car in a main event. Any TQ worth their qualifying status should want the field a little closer than that at the start, instead of an "insurance policy" against being collected in the first turn. Even when the leader is taken out in turn one, usually they're fast enough to make up the time over the course of the race. There's also a little time to "get even" with the driver that gets you at the start (nudge nudge, wink wink...)...
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:07 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by adamge View Post
That's a gross and inaccurate generalization of what happens at the start of a race. The guys who launch well have two options: put an aggressive and dangerous pass on those who launched poorly ahead of them, or lift and leave themselves vulnerable to the dive bombers. Both options most frequently result in a collision.

Which brings me back to my thesis in this thread: Small grid spacing frequently results in an unavoidable collision, the result of which is out of the racer's control and often nullifies all qualifying efforts. Large grid spacing gives a racer, whom launches well, control of what happens in the first corner.
Doesn't happen too often in my corner of the world. Why? Because we start heads-up all the time. We've learned how to make quick, effective decisions without causing huge stackups. Those who launch really well (and know the habits of those around them) can EASILY put a safe pass on an opponent without making a "dangerous" pass. As for being afraid of those behind me, if they do happen to hit me in the first few turns they can usually count on getting caught and passed anyhow. During a race, the last thing I'm worried about are those I've outrun during the event - I'd rather focus on those ahead of me...
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Last edited by oeoeo327; 07-28-2009 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:44 PM   #72
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Just wanted to throw this out there for the discussion. this is in the IFMAR rules ....

2.9.4 During the finals the starting grid will be five staggered rows of two cars each.

Positions to be determined by qualifying results.

2.9.5 There will be no restarts due to jump starts.


and I really think it makes alot of sense
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:21 PM   #73
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Well guys, I agree the most with tc3team, hairy, Rick Hohwart, and (Skypileup.... ). At the now nonexisting SIR, (Seattle Indoor Raceway), many creative things were tried, (both loved and hated). "Wheel of Fortune" style of gambling with the TQ's start position devolved into a "Game of Chance", (I was not a fan of this stratedgy). One of the better ideas was a "Headsup" Qual start w/indivedual clock on each car, this offered the best of both worlds, well sort of. At least the spectators were placated, and the racers got to work on their starts. Mr Hohwart might remember when the ROAR Asphalt Nats were up here and the RMT invoked/assesed penalty "DOT", that if you commited a "Driving Foul", you were ordered to drive around it. Not quite a full lap penalty, but definatly factored into the finall outcome. Our RD, at the time, would usually allow one foul on a start, and if the same driver offended again, he moved to the back of the grid. After a few club races, "You" learned to not be "That Guy" !
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el salvador View Post
....Mr Hohwart might remember when the ROAR Asphalt Nats were up here and the RMT invoked/assesed penalty "DOT", that if you commited a "Driving Foul", you were ordered to drive around it. Not quite a full lap penalty, but definatly factored into the finall outcome. Our RD, at the time, would usually allow one foul on a start, and if the same driver offended again, he moved to the back of the grid. After a few club races, "You" learned to not be "That Guy" !
Sheriff, you forgot to mention what happened once you hit the 3rd foul. The offender was duct taped to the pole for the entire next race.


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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Yesterday at my local club race, it was the exact opposite. Our mod final start was SO bad, that the director actually stopped the race before the first lap was over to do a restart! Cars, parts, and radios flying all over the place!

On the flip-side, our novice race had a 100% clean start and i'm pretty sure there was 0 contact around the entire first lap!
And you've seen that happen how many times in mod?? Restarts can happen, the point is they are less frequent in mod. I was in that race and drove thru it without contact...and everyone that made first start also made second start...with their radio...so you have exagerated your point a bit...huh?
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:11 AM   #75
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Oh Vern ! You're such a Bad Dog ! ..... Ther'es no need to scare people ! even though a few cellphone photos appeared on the now deleted SIR Thread, I'm quite sure that the (Drunk)/make up the rules as you go perpatraters, sobered up and remembered none of this. I'm also quite sure there is a provision somewhere in the ROAR rule book that allows for such "Punishment", if deemed necessary....

I, don't believe Mr Hohwart was ever found to be that far out of compliance to recieve such a "Harsh" penalty, however this race is "still under review"...
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