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View Poll Results: Do you feel that such a grid would be a positive addition to your event?
Yes. The point of qualifying is to get the better position on the grid. 84 80.77%
No. Not digging the challenge. 20 19.23%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-27-2009, 07:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by da_John_wee View Post
also for spectators point of view stagger start is hard to follow or make em interest,....hmmm may be thats the one of reason why this hobby lack of new comers latley.
I think it has more to do with $500 TCs that are "obsolete" 6 months after they're purchased, or electronics that are dated by the time you get them. Combine those factors with beginners' classes being loaded with top-level drivers, and I could see why new RC enthusiasts aren't as enthusiastic as they once were. Most importantly, it might simply be a lack of opportunity. New drivers aren't "hooked" to the point where they'll drive 2 hours to attend a club race, and shops/tracks are disappearing at a pretty steady rate. No where to race often equals few (if any) new drivers.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:46 PM   #32
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Heads up start with a 20' Grid for quals. Now that might be the ticket. It gives a little uh-oh room but at least looks like a race to spectators. Is seems most of the spectators at our track are there early in the day and watch the quals. They can be pretty boring if you only have 4 or 5 cars in a class and do ifmar starts. I'm liking that idea more all the time.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:11 PM   #33
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Would anyone please explain the lingo here? We outside the US don't understand what "heads up start" means. Personally, I don't know what "IFMAR starts" are either.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:18 PM   #34
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Would anyone please explain the lingo here? We outside the US don't understand what "heads up start" means. Personally, I don't know what "IFMAR starts" are either.
Heads up means every cars go on the tone at the start of the race . IFMAR mean every drive is on there own clock (as in a qualifier not the main) each car goes at a diffenrt time spaced out
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:28 PM   #35
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I just don't see what the problem is with the way it's dne. Why are we giving the T.Q car such a big lead in the main? I thought that the point of the main was to race for the win not handicap a race for the T.q. driver to be comfortable. Getting hammered in the first turn...pppllllease! why not just give the win to the car that is the top qualifier, in that way they won't have to worry that they might not win the race.
I know this sarcasim but come on really.
Putting the 10th place qualifier in a position where they have no hope of winning is not a good thing.
!0' feet between cars in the start of the main puts the 10th place car 100' from the leader. I don't know of many cars in the A main that can make up 100' of difference in a race, not if you consider that all the cars in theroy are supposed to be somewhat equal. after all it is called a race not a quailifer right.
As far as being hit in the first turn, that is what the race director is supposed to be watching for....rough driving, right?
All i see is the t.q. drivers complaining that they don't have an advantage if the start is close togehter, come on it's a race not an easy win....go out there and earn it!
o.k. i said my piece now tear me to shreds
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:39 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by eflite300 View Post
Heads up means every cars go on the tone at the start of the race . IFMAR mean every drive is on there own clock (as in a qualifier not the main) each car goes at a diffenrt time spaced out
Thanks, got it. IFMAR is called staggerred start here.

We have staggerred start qualifiers and "heads up" mains.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:04 PM   #37
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Putting the 10th place qualifier in a position where they have no hope of winning is not a good thing.
I was in the race where we did the 20 ft space I was last and made it to 4th before of the race was over . As I would have not have finish any higher even if we did 10 ft because the top three drivers was just faster then me that day and yes it made the first turn alot better
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:10 PM   #38
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I raced for years with mass start qualifying on carpet ovals where we were only seperated by 3 feet. This IFMAR staggered stuff is still new to me (last 2 years.) I would rather see mass start all day and not quite 20 foot seperation. I agree with what RB said. Stagger according to the longest straight. 10 in a main gets less room than 6 in a main.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:26 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by hairy View Post
.....
As far as being hit in the first turn, that is what the race director is supposed to be watching for....rough driving, right?
.....
Therein lies the problem. Our club doesn't have race directors most of the time because it is just not feasible (we race on a week day so time is limited and everybody wants to race, not watch somebody else do it) so we rely on people doing the right thing which seems to not work after a while.

As a result the start is almost always a disaster (in all classes) and if you're on grid one or two your only chance is that the other guy cops it while you make your getaway. There is no foretold scenario here either because both first and second grid are vulnerable due to the configuration of the track. First grid is just before the corner on the inside and second grid is about 1m back on the outside so first has to go slowly around the corner whilst second can cut across the corner straight away and hopefully make it without being t boned from behind.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy View Post
I just don't see what the problem is with the way it's dne. Why are we giving the T.Q car such a big lead in the main? I thought that the point of the main was to race for the win not handicap a race for the T.q. driver to be comfortable. Getting hammered in the first turn...pppllllease! why not just give the win to the car that is the top qualifier, in that way they won't have to worry that they might not win the race.
I know this sarcasim but come on really.
Putting the 10th place qualifier in a position where they have no hope of winning is not a good thing.
!0' feet between cars in the start of the main puts the 10th place car 100' from the leader. I don't know of many cars in the A main that can make up 100' of difference in a race, not if you consider that all the cars in theroy are supposed to be somewhat equal. after all it is called a race not a quailifer right.
As far as being hit in the first turn, that is what the race director is supposed to be watching for....rough driving, right?
All i see is the t.q. drivers complaining that they don't have an advantage if the start is close togehter, come on it's a race not an easy win....go out there and earn it!
o.k. i said my piece now tear me to shreds
I agree with what you say, but for one extenuating circumstance: We devote 80% of our race program to determining qualifying positions. Starting the main with a 5ft grid pitch means that a shocking portion of our race programs are worthless.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:59 PM   #41
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I hear what you guys are saying but your trying to make something different out of a race than it should be.looking to give ANY car a advatage over another is not what it is about. I have been (in my 20+years of this hobby) in both places t.q. and #10. you just cannot give any car an advantage over another. The grid is supposed to be set up to make the final race a competetion and calls for good driving. You will always have the "X" factor in any race. But to space out the cars in such a drawn out fashion does not in my opinion create a fair start for anyone but the t.q.car. they only qualified for the number one position and to win they must work for it. if not then why even have qualifing or for that fact why even keep score.
What i see here is a proposal to let the T.Q car have the advantage by keeping the other cars at least 10' from them. I race in memphis where the start of the main is on a long back straight and if you are the 10th place car you are placed at a real disadvantage with this spread out field, you have very little chance of finishing in the lead unless you qualified poorly or the leaders screwed up and wrecked.Not really a fun race when you are the tenth car and you see the first place car 60' ahead of you even before the race starts.
I know I will never convince you guys of this and it will change but I really think that all this whinng about not being able to make thru the first turn cleanly is alot of sillyness, It's called a race not qualifing.
and as far a race directors surely you have someone running the computer for each race and part of that duty is to be on the lookout for rough driving. I have raced in jonesboro ark. and they at one point used a penalty box, if you were driving too rough you had to pull in to the penalty box, if you did not you were disqualified or had a lap removed from your finish. policing the rough drivers is better that creating a disadvantage bu stringing out the starting grid.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:34 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
Therein lies the problem. Our club doesn't have race directors most of the time because it is just not feasible (we race on a week day so time is limited and everybody wants to race, not watch somebody else do it) so we rely on people doing the right thing which seems to not work after a while.

As a result the start is almost always a disaster (in all classes) and if you're on grid one or two your only chance is that the other guy cops it while you make your getaway. There is no foretold scenario here either because both first and second grid are vulnerable due to the configuration of the track. First grid is just before the corner on the inside and second grid is about 1m back on the outside so first has to go slowly around the corner whilst second can cut across the corner straight away and hopefully make it without being t boned from behind.
Just an idea, but would it be possible to move the grid to another part of the track and help the situation?

Maybe that has already been looked into though.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy View Post
What i see here is a proposal to let the T.Q car have the advantage by keeping the other cars at least 10' from them. I race in memphis where the start of the main is on a long back straight and if you are the 10th place car you are placed at a real disadvantage with this spread out field, you have very little chance of finishing in the lead unless you qualified poorly or the leaders screwed up and wrecked.Not really a fun race when you are the tenth car and you see the first place car 60' ahead of you even before the race starts.
All that is true and I for one am not advocating giving anyone any advantage but a chance at a fair race. As I said before, I sometimes deliberately qualify poorly to save my car some damage. I also know that a position at the back of the grid gives me a better chance at coming out of the second corner unscathed while the rest of the field are still playing dodgem cars in the first corner.

And you needn't convince anyone I think. We all agree with what you're saying. It is just impractical to have a closely spaced grid if drivers don't have the skill to start cleanly.

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Just an idea, but would it be possible to move the grid to another part of the track and help the situation?

Maybe that has already been looked into though.
Yes, it has. It is not practical anywhere else because of various space constraints as well as track shape. Truth is we wouldn't really have any problems if rules were applied. Penalise and disqualify rough drivers and racing is clean. The higher classes (with fewer but more skilled drivers across the entire field) don't have these start problems.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:22 AM   #44
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All that is true and I for one am not advocating giving anyone any advantage but a chance at a fair race. As I said before, I sometimes deliberately qualify poorly to save my car some damage. I also know that a position at the back of the grid gives me a better chance at coming out of the second corner unscathed while the rest of the field are still playing dodgem cars in the first corner.

And you needn't convince anyone I think. We all agree with what you're saying. It is just impractical to have a closely spaced grid if drivers don't have the skill to start cleanly.



Yes, it has. It is not practical anywhere else because of various space constraints as well as track shape. Truth is we wouldn't really have any problems if rules were applied. Penalise and disqualify rough drivers and racing is clean. The higher classes (with less but more skilled drivers across the entire field) don't have thes start problems.
I have seen in a 19t race where one guy comes from the back of the grid pretty quickly, finds a big burst of speed to get on the inside line of the first corner. Maybe it was because of new cells, or a motor, or both?

Or just a demon start with no wheelspin at all?

This took the other racers by suprise and caused an accident into turn 1.

If your grid position is off of the racing line, by the time the finals are starting, your part of the track has less grip to it than others.



So, sometimes things can happen that dont usually happen and bang...
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:26 AM   #45
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We used to have our starting grid staggered at 1 meter gaps but since last year we increased the gap to 2 meters and for regional and national events to 3 meters.
What we found is the larger gaps have benefitted the racers as there is virtually no first corner pile ups.
i would rather fight to gain position from a longer starting grid than being taken out on the first corner by the guy further back coming into the corner too hot.
After all the race is won at the end of 5 mins not at the first corner.
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