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Larger Grid Seperation a Good Thing?

View Poll Results: Do you feel that such a grid would be a positive addition to your event?
Yes. The point of qualifying is to get the better position on the grid.
80.77%
No. Not digging the challenge.
19.23%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

Larger Grid Seperation a Good Thing?

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Old 07-27-2009, 11:32 AM
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Too bad the back straight isn't wide enough at most tracks to do Land Rush starts Line 'em all up side by side and everyone charge for the first turn Ok, not really, but it would be funny to watch, but not participate. I'm all for spreading the grids out more.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealth_RT View Post
Too bad the back straight isn't wide enough at most tracks to do Land Rush starts Line 'em all up side by side and everyone charge for the first turn Ok, not really, but it would be funny to watch, but not participate. I'm all for spreading the grids out more.
We do that in our on-road Slash class. Its a freaking mess. Massive pile-ups in the first corner. No one in the class seems to like it but the race director enjoys watching it so it stays.
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:02 PM
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I've also had recent experience where good drivers bomb the first corner. With the big, wide bumpers, there is no disadvantage to doing so. It's not like 1:1 racing where you might harm your front end shooting for the first corner in a F1 race. In RC, the qualifying system encourages the slower qualified cars to bomb the corner to "catch up."

Last weekend we spent 3 rounds of qualifying to get the cars placed about 2.5' - 3' apart for the main. Going from 2nd to last in 3 seconds sucks and is definately not very exciting. All the driving practice and car set up to get a good qualification spot becomes worthless as your entire race is now dependant on how fast a marshall can retrieve your car.

I also think the racing should emphasize less qualifying and more racing. I would like to see two - 3 minute qualifiers with 20 - 30 minute mains broken up into 2 -3 legs.
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
Last weekend we spent 3 rounds of qualifying to get the cars placed about 2.5' - 3' apart for the main. Going from 2nd to last in 3 seconds sucks and is definately not very exciting. All the driving practice and car set up to get a good qualification spot becomes worthless as your entire race is now dependant on how fast a marshall can retrieve your car.
That's if you lucky enough that your car isn't broken during the first turn pile-up. Then all your hard work and setup is all for nought.

Hmm, Ifmar starts for the Mains too!!! Ok, that might be going a bit too far, but there's been weeks where I wished for that.
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:19 PM
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I don't think more separation is the way to go.
We should run Head's Up starts, but instead of going from Pole Position back, line all the cars up on one line, Pole man on the very inside, and the 10th place car on the very outside. You might need a wider lane, but I think it would make starts much cleaner. You don't give the lower placed drivers the chance to build up any more speed then the top 3, so they don't have a huge run into corner one to divebomb.

Also, most drivers are competing for the inside line into corner one anyways, so you give the Pole man that position, and have the run-up the same for everyone, which should make it so the Pole car makes it through in front.
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
I also think the racing should emphasize less qualifying and more racing. I would like to see two - 3 minute qualifiers with 20 - 30 minute mains broken up into 2 -3 legs.
Now thats tough to do on asphalt without some low gearing and 3 fans on your motor . 10-15 minute mains are almost impossible when the track temp is 140+ keeping your motor under 190 is tough enough during a 6 minute run much less 10 minute. I like the qualifying/ mains system just about every track uses. 2-3 quals then the mains. I like the system Q (mrrcguy) came up with. Yesterday things went super smooth. I think when we have 2 quals instead of 1 the day will seem a lot better. Im still not a huge fan of 20ft but the more I think about it the more I begin to understand why. Every track has those guys that think that you have to reach the front on the first lap, which is clearly not the case, but when you get those guys in the back on a 10ft grid it causes a huge pile up and then those fast guys are sitting in 4th place 5 seconds back from the leader now. I guess the reason i didnt like it at first is because while im not the fastest guy out there, i can hang with the leaders if im not getting out motored, so i thought that 20ft put me at a huge disadvantage. Yesterday in the main though, I started 3rd and after 5 or so laps it was clear i was gaining on 2nd place and eventually caught up to them and passed, so 20ft is not impossible, but tough to say the least.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by adamge View Post
mrrc, I agree with you. The point of qualifying well is to give yourself an advantage in the race. What's the point of qualifying better than the next guy when he can just dive bomb the first corner and take you out?

You guys usually have 8-10ft between cars? I'm pretty sure the races I run at, it's more like 6ft. This idea that everyone has to be on the back straight is ridiculous and arbitrary. Giving some meaning to qualifying should take precedent over that arbitrary factor.

Expanding on the idea, personally I think that the process of 3-5 rounds of qualifiers and 1 round of mains is also a poor format. We spend 80% of the race day/weekend/week to come up with advantages that any driver can nullify and overcome just by executing a simple dive bomb. Drop qualifying down to 2 rounds in club and 3 rounds at big events, and use the leftover rounds to run multiple races that really mean something.

-Adam
if you do that then why not just give the t.q. an extra lap for tqing? just because you t.q. dosen't mean you get 20' of lead to start the race. if you can't handle being in the front then give up the spot to someone else and go to the back and try to win!
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by #88driver View Post
Now thats tough to do on asphalt without some low gearing and 3 fans on your motor . 10-15 minute mains are almost impossible when the track temp is 140+ keeping your motor under 190 is tough enough during a 6 minute run much less 10 minute.
The exact times would have to be played with - maybe three 6 minute legs to each main. The idea is to swap out the time spent on the typical 3 qualifiers with actual racing and still have an effective method for qualifying the grid.

I know it will never happen, but it would be kind of neat to see a "false start" method that you find at track meets. Restart the race if there is a 1st turn pile up - if there is another pile up on the restart, dude gets disqualified.
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
The exact times would have to be played with - maybe three 6 minute legs to each main. The idea is to swap out the time spent on the typical 3 qualifiers with actual racing and still have an effective method for qualifying the grid.

I know it will never happen, but it would be kind of neat to see a "false start" method that you find at track meets. Restart the race if there is a 1st turn pile up - if there is another pile up on the restart, dude gets disqualified.
Oh i gotcha. When i read your post and you said 20-30 minute mains divided into 2-3 legs and thats where i got 10 minute mains.
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Yesterday at my local club race, it was the exact opposite. Our mod final start was SO bad, that the director actually stopped the race before the first lap was over to do a restart! Cars, parts, and radios flying all over the place!

On the flip-side, our novice race had a 100% clean start and i'm pretty sure there was 0 contact around the entire first lap!

B. that was a special case. the pole sitter went straight to the pipe and after that it was on with the stack up. restart he died after the 1st 180 and issues were again had.

the problem as i see it, and have been fighting for is do away with IMFAR starts. all day you start when you name is called and then in the main, of course theres stack ups, first your starting on the fastest part of the track where the last guy is pinned into the sweeper when most are on the brakes for 180.

in other words, if during every qual, we started on the straight and everyone went on the tone, when it came time for the main, we should be used to it, and if there is a pile up, restart, it only takes a few restarts and everyone plays nice, it works, been there, done that.

save the imfar stuff for the big races.

and as far as the novices, check some of the trcr and 4 seasons race results to see who is taking advantage of the " first 5 races are free"
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrcguy View Post
Interesting feedback here.

Here is what we did today. I feel this is a great format for club racing.

After running ONE round of qualifying, we went to open practice for and hour and a half. We then rand one more qualifier and went straight into the mains.

This 1 1/2 hour of open track mid day was a huge hit with the racers. This gave those who wanted to do some serious testing or just wrenching plenty of time to do so. Also those who just wanted to relax in the pits were able to do so without having to worry about keeping a frantic pace. I know I took full advantage by putting in three runs on my car and I still had time to help four other drivers with their cars.

Everyone came into the second round or qualifying with much improved lap times.
having a new car to work out still, i actually like that idea. even without the new car, it would put some fun back into it, and by doing it this way, we would probably actually save some time, the normal running of the second round followed by lunch takes longer
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
B. that was a special case. the pole sitter went straight to the pipe and after that it was on with the stack up. restart he died after the 1st 180 and issues were again had.

the problem as i see it, and have been fighting for is do away with IMFAR starts. all day you start when you name is called and then in the main, of course theres stack ups, first your starting on the fastest part of the track where the last guy is pinned into the sweeper when most are on the brakes for 180.

in other words, if during every qual, we started on the straight and everyone went on the tone, when it came time for the main, we should be used to it, and if there is a pile up, restart, it only takes a few restarts and everyone plays nice, it works, been there, done that.

save the imfar stuff for the big races.

and as far as the novices, check some of the trcr and 4 seasons race results to see who is taking advantage of the " first 5 races are free"
Ritchie... I agree 100%. I too would rather do-away with the ifmar starts, and run our heats heads-up too. Can't we do them that way if all the racers in any given class agree at the start of the day? It makes perfect sense that you (as a club) would need to "practice" the heads up start, just like anything else. Heck, learning how to properly manuever through the corners close to other drivers, without taking anybody out, is PART of racing.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Yesterday at my local club race, it was the exact opposite. Our mod final start was SO bad, that the director actually stopped the race before the first lap was over to do a restart! Cars, parts, and radios flying all over the place!

On the flip-side, our novice race had a 100% clean start and i'm pretty sure there was 0 contact around the entire first lap!
puahahahahah taht s some funny $hit!

I vote for bringing back the head up start on local event, some races only have 3 cars with IFMAR start make me sleepy.

also for spectators point of view stagger start is hard to follow or make em interest,....hmmm may be thats the one of reason why this hobby lack of new comers latley.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Ritchie... I agree 100%. I too would rather do-away with the ifmar starts, and run our heats heads-up too. Can't we do them that way if all the racers in any given class agree at the start of the day? It makes perfect sense that you (as a club) would need to "practice" the heads up start, just like anything else. Heck, learning how to properly manuever through the corners close to other drivers, without taking anybody out, is PART of racing.


yep, plus you get 4 'races' instead of 1
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Ritchie... I agree 100%. I too would rather do-away with the ifmar starts, and run our heats heads-up too. Can't we do them that way if all the racers in any given class agree at the start of the day? It makes perfect sense that you (as a club) would need to "practice" the heads up start, just like anything else. Heck, learning how to properly manuever through the corners close to other drivers, without taking anybody out, is PART of racing.
That's the way we do it in Southern Jersey - Heads-up, all the time!!! Works great once you learn how, but requires a little bit of restraint and some respect for your fellow competitors for things to work the way they should.
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