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Old 07-22-2009, 06:12 PM   #31
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. I can always trim down the throttle to keep my top speed low and help me to control the car better with the 13.5..
No. If the class you want to race in runs 17.5 (which it probably does if you run stock) then you cannot use the 13.5 at all. However if your stock class runs 13.5, then you are all set. Purchase/run the motor that you will end up using in the class you want to race in.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:12 PM   #32
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My concern is this... if I get the T2 EU Rubber then I may have a hard time learning how to drive because it comes with rubber slicks and we have a carpet track... traction will be tough (I guess). But if I get the US Foam spec then I may have more traction but then I don't know if I'll be able to run in the Rubber class. Maybe I've got this traction thing backwards... Help!

Or is the T2 difficult to properly set up?
No Xray (the top end cars) comes with tires, rubber or otherwise (or wheels for that matter). The foam/rubber spec refers to chassis torsional rigidity which is optimised for one or the other. Foam spec cars have a thicker chassis which is too rigid to make use of the low traction of rubber tires.

Any car is difficult to set up if you don't know what you're doing. Xrays are helpful to some extent because new kits come with a setup guide, but again, you have to be pretty knowledgeable to understand what they talk about, otherwise it's all gobletygook.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:20 PM   #33
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I am a little biased, I do admit, but to answer your question regarding whether or not the X-Ray is hard to setup..........not at all. Are you still going to try to go for the '009? You won't go wrong with any of the X-Ray cars. If your budget allows, definitely go ahead and pick up a '009. One thing that I love about the X-Ray cars is how they respond to changes. When you make a change, whether it be for the good or for the bad, you will feel it. Having said that, if you make one change at at time (which you should always do at least until you become more experienced in the setup department) you will notice only a subtle change in the car's behavior. Don't ever be afraid to try something different. Any one change on the X-Ray isn't going to take you from one extreme to the other. My other suggestion would be to stay with the rubber spec car until you gain more experience. The foam car will generally have more overall grip, but that does not necessarily translate into it being easier to drive and it definitely does not mean that it will be easier to be competitive with. Plus, you don't have to worry yourself with cutting tires, calculating rollout,etc.... and you will have more time to worry about other things, like getting valuable track time. Just my .02. You have a lot of good advice in this thread. Use that to your advantage. Let us know how we can help.

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Old 07-23-2009, 08:12 PM   #34
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I've made a decision to go ahead and purchase a used X-Ray 007. I'm now having a hard time choosing between two very nice ones. One is set up for foam and has tons of very nice NIP parts and the other is set up for VTA also with alot of extra parts (but not NIP). Both asking about the same price and both look to be well taken care of cars.

My decision to buy a used one with lots of parts is practical for me.... I don't spend that much money and I get a ton of parts that I'll probably need while I'm learning how to drive on-road.

I've already decided that I ultimately want to get the 009 (or later model) so the older 007 is a great starter for me.

The big question is... drum roll... which set-up will help me to learn on-road driving more... the foam or the rubber? What I'm really asking is which setup is more forgiving to driver errors and will help me to clean my lines without surprises? My guess is foam but I may be wrong...

It's like if you ask me which car you should drive to lear SCCA; a Porsche 911 or a Ferrari F430... my answer would be the F430 because it's mid-engine and more balanced than the rear engine 911... yes, it's more exotic but much easier to drive fast.

Please help! Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:58 PM   #35
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My list of priorities would be:
1 - Which one is in best condition
2 - Which one gets me a spool for the front diff
3 - Which one offers the most parts
4 - If you track has a VTA class - get that one and run it. VTA is awesome.

Don't worry about how they are set up, you are going to change all those settings to get it to handle to suit your driving style (when you get one).

Items to look for when running carpet:
spool
3* or 4* caster blocks
solid front bumper
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:53 AM   #36
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I don't understand why you can't do both? It's all really fun! I recently built a tc5 and love the car! Had to tweak the crap out of it and $700 worth of mods and electronics but it rips now! Also built a crawler, rc8e tekno I'm working on now! Don't limit your self we've only got one life to live! I think onroad is actually harder to master and the cars do break, $40 for tires every couple weeks sorex tires or better, body after body ect..... Do both run the other one when one is down!
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:11 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by t4tx View Post
The big question is... drum roll... which set-up will help me to learn on-road driving more... the foam or the rubber? What I'm really asking is which setup is more forgiving to driver errors and will help me to clean my lines without surprises? My guess is foam but I may be wrong...
Zdiddy said it perfectly : stay away from foam. Go rubber, there are 1000 reasons why foams are not the way to go for you , and not the way to go for TC in general.

I'll sum up some of these reasons :

-The foam chunks when you traction roll, or hit something ( and that'll ahppen a lot !)

-the foam changes in diameter and that's a PITA to compensate : your ride height changes, your droop , your roll center, your rollout change, etc...

There are a lot other reasons like the fact that the huge grip gives you the impression that you're fast, but you're actually stopped in every corner, so you may develop bad driving reflexes... etc, etc...

Rubber is smooth and teaches you to enter and exit a corner with right the proper amount of speed and throttle. Definitely the best school.

The future of TC racing is rubber, seriously. I can see why a very skilled driver may like foam TC, and i enjoyed it sometimes even if I'm not that good, but it would be a terrible mistake to start on road with foam TC. Besides your 007 probably isn't stiff enough for that.

have fun and let us know how you improve !
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:47 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
My list of priorities would be:
1 - Which one is in best condition
2 - Which one gets me a spool for the front diff
3 - Which one offers the most parts
4 - If you track has a VTA class - get that one and run it. VTA is awesome.

Don't worry about how they are set up, you are going to change all those settings to get it to handle to suit your driving style (when you get one).

Items to look for when running carpet:
spool
3* or 4* caster blocks
solid front bumper
Thank you... I believe the foam-spec one does NOT come with the front one-way. Also, all the extra parts are specifically for foam-spec.



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Originally Posted by heretic View Post
Zdiddy said it perfectly : stay away from foam. Go rubber, there are 1000 reasons why foams are not the way to go for you , and not the way to go for TC in general.

I'll sum up some of these reasons :

-The foam chunks when you traction roll, or hit something ( and that'll ahppen a lot !)

-the foam changes in diameter and that's a PITA to compensate : your ride height changes, your droop , your roll center, your rollout change, etc...

There are a lot other reasons like the fact that the huge grip gives you the impression that you're fast, but you're actually stopped in every corner, so you may develop bad driving reflexes... etc, etc...

Rubber is smooth and teaches you to enter and exit a corner with right the proper amount of speed and throttle. Definitely the best school.

The future of TC racing is rubber, seriously. I can see why a very skilled driver may like foam TC, and i enjoyed it sometimes even if I'm not that good, but it would be a terrible mistake to start on road with foam TC. Besides your 007 probably isn't stiff enough for that.

have fun and let us know how you improve !
Excellent advice and exactly the sort of guidance I was hoping for. Thank you. All you guys have been a great resource and excellent help.

Thanks!
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:57 AM   #39
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Foam is a good tyre to run when you:

1) have enough experience to not hit much on the track and chunk your tyres.
2) use a harder compound on a high grip track
3) understand how the rollout will affect your gear ratio as the tyres wear
4) understand how to adjust your droop as the tyres wear

For some, this does not come easily, however, when you do use foams and the grip is there for you to race with, it's a great experience. Especially when everyone has an equally as good handling car and races are won and lost by seconds

For me, using foams the grip has always been good and the tyres seem to last for ages (40 shore foams, premounted). For others, the grip may be rubbish and the tyres wear too quickly. I guess it all comes down to where you race, and how often.

That aside, I would agree though that rubber is the easiest tyre to start off with in any form of racing where possible...
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:26 AM   #40
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Thank you all for the exellent advice. I went ahead and purchased a used XRay 007 set up for VTA from a forum member. The car appears to be in great shape (from the pics) and has lots of parts. I ultimately would like to get the 009 so I'll practice with the 007 and then step up when I'm ready. That's why I decided to go used so I don't take a huge bath when I sell it.

I have the Novak GTB and 13.5BL as well as a few Orion 3400 Lipo packs so I think I'm ready. I'm going to try to trade my 13.5 for a 21.5 so that I can have a more manageable car and learn control first.

Do you guys think that's a good idea or should I stick with the 13.5? We don't have VTA at my track... only Stock Sedan (13.5 & rubber tires).
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t4tx View Post
Thank you all for the exellent advice. I went ahead and purchased a used XRay 007 set up for VTA from a forum member. The car appears to be in great shape (from the pics) and has lots of parts. I ultimately would like to get the 009 so I'll practice with the 007 and then step up when I'm ready. That's why I decided to go used so I don't take a huge bath when I sell it.

I have the Novak GTB and 13.5BL as well as a few Orion 3400 Lipo packs so I think I'm ready. I'm going to try to trade my 13.5 for a 21.5 so that I can have a more manageable car and learn control first.

Do you guys think that's a good idea or should I stick with the 13.5? We don't have VTA at my track... only Stock Sedan (13.5 & rubber tires).
As much as I think you'd benefit from having a slower motor to learn with, if all they race where you are is 13.5's, then you'd better keep that motor(you don't want to feel you're stuck with something you can't race 'cause no one else wants to use it). You should be ok with a 13.5 is you go about it carefully(gear it conservatively, maybe dial down the trims in your transmitter, etc.), & just concentrate on driving clean at first, as you get the hang of it, you'll get a feel for how much speed you can handle, & you'll be on the path to competitiveness.....
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Old 07-24-2009, 06:40 PM   #42
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As much as I think you'd benefit from having a slower motor to learn with, if all they race where you are is 13.5's, then you'd better keep that motor(you don't want to feel you're stuck with something you can't race 'cause no one else wants to use it). You should be ok with a 13.5 is you go about it carefully(gear it conservatively, maybe dial down the trims in your transmitter, etc.), & just concentrate on driving clean at first, as you get the hang of it, you'll get a feel for how much speed you can handle, & you'll be on the path to competitiveness.....

If I were to dial down the trim on my Spektrum transmitter, I know i can make that 13.5 really slow. The question is: does it hurt the motor to run it like that? Would I be better of buying a used 21.5 motor and keeping this one for when I start to race?
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:55 AM   #43
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21.5 is sloooooow ...

Perhaps if you know how to drive it will be boring for you.

try 17.5...

or just run your 13.5 without any limit !

I am not sure but I think the ESC doesn't like to be limited by the travel adjustment... at least it was true for brushed ESCs.

don't be too modest, I think full power 13.5 is not beyond your abilities, just be careful !

have fun
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:10 AM   #44
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i am also a beginer in the onroad side of things, and i have a HPI RS4 PRO2 with a novak 13.5 and GTB ESC with foams and a 6 cell venom lipo and its does great not to much power at all, but i have been racing off road for about 6 years, but its a whole diffrent animal the steering is so much more responsive, and so is the power , its fun i like it and will continue to do both, good luck in your endevors and just remember in off road SLOW IS FAST untill you get the hang of things, just remember when entering corners off road dont try and slide around them, slow down and take it easy and just drive around them, and concentrate on your power delivery when exiting the corner.
have fun eather way thats what the hobby is all about
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:27 AM   #45
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Im sorry guys but im going to have to disagree with a lot of these 13.5 will be alright for you. Just ask any real rc racer, for a beginner, slower is faster. In my opinion, you just just sit your 13.5 aside for right now and get a 17.5 if your budget allows and if not, pick up a Tamiya silver can and run it for a little while, dont just toss in a 13.5 on your first race, get some practice, learn how to setup your car and how certain things affect what, and learn how to be smooth on the wheel/throttle. All these things will help you learn quickly and I promise soon enough you will be able to run faster.
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