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Old 07-18-2009, 11:53 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by seaball View Post
that could be why it hasn't yet.
More like why it won`t come back ....
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
What is the point of guys like me running mod? I dont get paid, I have no place to practice. This is the case with a lot of the good Super Stock guys.

I dont give 2 craps about what guys like Rick Howart think of me. I pay every penny out of my pocket to go to these big races and choose to compete in a class that I feel comfortable in. I have a great time in Super stock classes running against people like Drew, Schreff, Kevin, Dayger, Brad, EJ and the like. Sponsors arent interested in guys like us entering mod and finishing at the top of the B or whatever. Its easy to say "Stop dominating super stock and move up to mod" if you work in the rc industry and have been racing for 30 years.

Guys that are factory guys that have no other job than Race rc cars are on another level hence the reason they run mod and guys like me do not. I cant practice 10 hours a day a month and barely a year. If I was getting paid to race I guarantee I could compete with anyone in this country but I probably never will get paid to race RC cars so I have no interest in running mod.
The interesting information in your post Larry is EJ, Drew, Keven, Dayger and Brad all get everything paid by their sponsors. They don't shell out a dime for their racing. EJ is probably under the Top budget and also works for them. Keven gets a salary from AE, Drew works for Jaco and R/C america. Dayger up until last year was a paid factory driver and Brad does not pay for his racing. So you are racing against paid drivers in the 13.5 class so why not do it in mod and try and and win something instead of trying to win nothing?

There are only 4 paid only to race mod drivers, Paul, Keven, Josh and Blackstock in the country and Keven is really from Canada. These guys don't really practice much, with the exception of Paul who probably spends more time at the track than any other, Josh races a lot but I don't think he does much actual practicing, Blackstock does not have a track to race at, Keven will spend a week here or there before a big race at Fastcats. Other than that, that is it. From the time of the carpet nats to now I can bet you've spent more time at a track running a car then most of these guys, but you happen to waste your time running 13.5 instead of getting better and running mod so you can beat these guys. I know you can do it and so what, maybe you are in the B main for a few races(if there actually is a B main) but I know you have the talent to compete. To me, you are wasting a good wheel on trying to win an amatuer class when in fact you have the skills to win a Pro class either quickly or with very little practice. Just make sure you get one of the new Photon Hard bumpers from Parma

Since you pay for all your travel, I guess race what you want but your wasting your talent.

Don't tell me you don't have time to run at an r/c track 10 hrs a day 7 days a week, at least in the last 2 months.

Paul
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:15 PM   #63
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Getting to be like an all-star game in here, with the heavy hitters showing their cards. I like.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:24 AM   #64
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Every thread lately about on-road and whats going on it in always turns into “Get the fast stock guys out of stock!”….”We have no Mod drivers”..."Mod is too fast". On one hand I do agree that some of the fast stock racers should run mod not because they should be forced out of stock but so they challenge themselves and like Paul said do something with their talent. But on the other hand no one should be forced to run any class they are not fully comfortable with. Its been said a thousand times that Mod right now with lipo batteries is too fast….so why make someone go out and have to race this out of control class? When really we should be looking to combine the mod and superstock class into one SUPER CLASS…..with say 10.5 motors for indoors and 6.5 motors outdoors. This way there will be better racing all across the board in the class. We wont have mod with a 1 man show and 8 other guys looking to hold on and not break their cars….and we will now have all the fresh talent moving up to race with old dogs and see how they stack up with manageable power. This seems more like a reasonable idea then moving all the fast stock guys out of superstock and into mod.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:35 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Every thread lately about on-road and whats going on it in always turns into “Get the fast stock guys out of stock!”….”We have no Mod drivers”..."Mod is too fast". On one hand I do agree that some of the fast stock racers should run mod not because they should be forced out of stock but so they challenge themselves and like Paul said do something with their talent. But on the other hand no one should be forced to run any class they are not fully comfortable with. Its been said a thousand times that Mod right now with lipo batteries is too fast….so why make someone go out and have to race this out of control class? When really we should be looking to combine the mod and superstock class into one SUPER CLASS…..with say 10.5 motors for indoors and 6.5 motors outdoors. This way there will be better racing all across the board in the class. We wont have mod with a 1 man show and 8 other guys looking to hold on and not break their cars….and we will now have all the fresh talent moving up to race with old dogs and see how they stack up with manageable power. This seems more like a reasonable idea then moving all the fast stock guys out of superstock and into mod.
I think what you will see happen in the near future is the motors and/or batteries will become limited in some way to slow the cars down, and the guys with no set of ba!!$ will then move up.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:20 AM   #66
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I race at a club where you can either use 13.5 or 27t, (or slower if you choose to). Traction is very good, indoors on carpet.

There is no default winner, the track is only 10m x 15m. TQ is usually taken by seconds, not a whole lap (which is about 7 or 8seconds).

If only life was so simple, everyone having fun...

One reason why I enjoy club racing so much.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:44 AM   #67
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In some areas it seems just difficult to get people to club race even in a parking lot. I've always got room available here but no one seems to want to come and mess around. Could be the state of the Detroit area though.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:54 AM   #68
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Go chicky....... You are very correct in everything you say.

My input is to not limit the motors to 10.5 for mod. This will make it a who has a special type of speedo with more timing adjustment or who has the hottest motor on the market that week situation.

Maybe we should try less voltage and see where that go's first. This way if a trinity motor is faster then a lrp motor i have the right to run a hotter wind motor to make up the power difference..

Just my opinion.

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Old 07-20-2009, 08:01 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Mike Blackstock View Post
Go chicky....... You are very correct in everything you say.

My input is to not limit the motors to 10.5 for mod. This will make it a who has a special type of speedo with more timing adjustment or who has the hottest motor on the market that week situation.

Maybe we should try less voltage and see where that go's first. This way if a trinity motor is faster then a lrp motor i have the right to run a hotter wind motor to make up the power difference..

Just my opinion.

Mike
This is why there has never been a better time for the little guy to run MOD. Not long ago it was all about who has the best batteries. Now anyone, who really wants to, can buy a Lipo/motor/speedo combo that has all the power and runtime needed to compete.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:30 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blackstock View Post
My input is to not limit the motors to 10.5 for mod. This will make it a who has a special type of speedo with more timing adjustment or who has the hottest motor on the market that week situation.

Maybe we should try less voltage and see where that go's first. This way if a trinity motor is faster then a lrp motor i have the right to run a hotter wind motor to make up the power difference..
I don’t see less voltage as the answer. The reason being talk to anyone with any sort of electrical knowledge and they all say more voltage and higher turn motors would be better off then less voltage and lower turn motors. Did you guys not learn anything when Japan tried to run 4cell and 8 turns how well that worked out. Just because we are now running lipo and brushless do you think it will be any different? Also with going to less voltage I bet you are going to have to buy all new electronics that are designed to run around the lower voltage so the cost for racers other then yourself goes up. Yes I know you can run a lipo receiver pack or a booster but why should you have to? And Im sure that all the electronic manufactures will come out with “optimized” 1 cell lipo or lower voltage equipment. Its cheaper to make someone buy a new motor to race a class then it is to make them buy a motor, esc, battery(s), servo, and receiver….and then Im sure Chassis to be optimized for the lighter/smaller lower voltage packs. For people that have to pay for things out of their pockets this doesn’t look like a good idea….for guys like yourself that get things for free who cares.

As far as the software for the ESC's how will it be any different then it already is??? There is new software all the time as it is right now...thats nothing new. And if your LRP motors are too slow sorry about your luck thats was your choice to run their motors. Anyone else who has to buy their motors can go off the shelf and buy whats the fastest. The motor of the week argument is moot because there is a ROAR process that the motors have to be legalized and for sale for everyone to buy....so again if your LRP motor is too slow go buy the faster Trinity motor or be slower.

Really all it comes down to is slow the cars down inside on small carpet tracks and keep the speeds reasonable on asphalt tracks.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:36 AM   #71
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My 2 cents and I apologize if I offend anybody . . .

People are paid to race encourage sales of a companies product. Therefore you have guys that clearly should only race Mod competing in lower classes to get easy wins. It amounts to more promotions for the company. I don't think any racer is going to turn down extra dollars to race and extra class.

On the other hand there are a ton of outstanding racer that could race mod but choose to stay in lower classes because it is easier on the budget. Some people don't have the budget to keep up with a factory sponsored driver that has a full ride. You would be setting yourself up for failure in my opinion.

Why not put the burden on the ROAR and Race Organizers to create some incentive to race mod (ie: If you are a paid racer to you forfeit your national standing and eligibility to race at the worlds).

Also manufactures could do somethings to help too. Why not offer a factory sponsorship as a prize. That would definately help some of the top level competion in 13.5 (and 10.5) classes move up to mod.

I just don't think criticizing individual racers is the answer
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:46 AM   #72
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All of this is silly !

Just change the names of the class`s

novice
intermediate
pro

or

novice
sportsman
pro

Problem is all to easy to fix...


When they do change, Sedan will come back ...
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:50 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
I don’t see less voltage as the answer. The reason being talk to anyone with any sort of electrical knowledge and they all say more voltage and higher turn motors would be better off then less voltage and lower turn motors. Did you guys not learn anything when Japan tried to run 4cell and 8 turns how well that worked out. Just because we are now running lipo and brushless do you think it will be any different? Also with going to less voltage I bet you are going to have to buy all new electronics that are designed to run around the lower voltage so the cost for racers other then yourself goes up. Yes I know you can run a lipo receiver pack or a booster but why should you have to? And Im sure that all the electronic manufactures will come out with “optimized” 1 cell lipo or lower voltage equipment. Its cheaper to make someone buy a new motor to race a class then it is to make them buy a motor, esc, battery(s), servo, and receiver….and then Im sure Chassis to be optimized for the lighter/smaller lower voltage packs. For people that have to pay for things out of their pockets this doesn’t look like a good idea….for guys like yourself that get things for free who cares.

As far as the software for the ESC's how will it be any different then it already is??? There is new software all the time as it is right now...thats nothing new. And if your LRP motors are too slow sorry about your luck thats was your choice to run their motors. Anyone else who has to buy their motors can go off the shelf and buy whats the fastest. The motor of the week argument is moot because there is a ROAR process that the motors have to be legalized and for sale for everyone to buy....so again if your LRP motor is too slow go buy the faster Trinity motor or be slower.

Really all it comes down to is slow the cars down inside on small carpet tracks and keep the speeds reasonable on asphalt tracks.
We are talking about modified here so all of the guys who are supposed to be moving up to don't pay for their stuff anyway. In that case getting new speedos, batteries, etc is really not a problem. Remember this is for ONLY mod. For the Spec classes, leave it like it is and you don't have to buy anything. Then we have a competitive class for normal guys by moving out the experts and a driveable, sane speed, competitive class for mod.

Paul
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:51 AM   #74
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Why have the slower (17.5) type classes just not taken hold. I know locally here they started there and all ended up running 13.5. I think racers are their own worst enemy sometimes. We in this hobby always want to strap in a bunch of motor. Many people get frustrated with breakage when they are way over their head speed wise.

I keep going back to the cost of on road. The boom of on road the kit prices were close to equal to the cost of electric offroad. The Tc3, G+, MR4TC were all kits that were in the $200 range. They were cars that had long shelf lives and customer loyalty. I love the advances of the new cars. But they have out advanced the average consumer and price threshold. In my area offroad has blown past onroad in terms of participation. Actully the growth of Dirt Oval has seen a sharp increase as well. Both Offroad and Dirt Oval are far less Tech driven and more user friendly (or that is the impression our area racers have).

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Old 07-20-2009, 08:54 AM   #75
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In respect to Mod Touring car only ...

oops Kevin .. Easy man easy... I just said this was my opinion. I do not care what the solution is as long as we get people back racing. I honestly think this might be the better solution though. there is no need to buy new electronics when you can buy a receiver pack and call it a day. The cars will be lighter and wear less tires and will be easier on the equipment. The speeds will be much slower and hopefully we will be able to have the great racing like we had in the past. Again this is my opinion from all my years of racing and i feel like this is the best answer right now. I could be 100% wrong , But i feel like if we do not do something soon TC foam and maybe even Rubber will be gone for good. I honestly think you will see huge increases in 12th scale and WGT this year due to the single cell and lighter cars. Why not give it a try in TC too....


Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
I don’t see less voltage as the answer. The reason being talk to anyone with any sort of electrical knowledge and they all say more voltage and higher turn motors would be better off then less voltage and lower turn motors. Did you guys not learn anything when Japan tried to run 4cell and 8 turns how well that worked out. Just because we are now running lipo and brushless do you think it will be any different? Also with going to less voltage I bet you are going to have to buy all new electronics that are designed to run around the lower voltage so the cost for racers other then yourself goes up. Yes I know you can run a lipo receiver pack or a booster but why should you have to? And Im sure that all the electronic manufactures will come out with “optimized” 1 cell lipo or lower voltage equipment. Its cheaper to make someone buy a new motor to race a class then it is to make them buy a motor, esc, battery(s), servo, and receiver….and then Im sure Chassis to be optimized for the lighter/smaller lower voltage packs. For people that have to pay for things out of their pockets this doesn’t look like a good idea….for guys like yourself that get things for free who cares.

As far as the software for the ESC's how will it be any different then it already is??? There is new software all the time as it is right now...thats nothing new. And if your LRP motors are too slow sorry about your luck thats was your choice to run their motors. Anyone else who has to buy their motors can go off the shelf and buy whats the fastest. The motor of the week argument is moot because there is a ROAR process that the motors have to be legalized and for sale for everyone to buy....so again if your LRP motor is too slow go buy the faster Trinity motor or be slower.

Really all it comes down to is slow the cars down inside on small carpet tracks and keep the speeds reasonable on asphalt tracks.
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Last edited by Mike Blackstock; 07-20-2009 at 09:34 AM.
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