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Old 07-15-2009, 11:26 AM   #1
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Exclamation Which Brushless setup can reach up to 100mph on a Elec tc3?

Hi everyone!
I want to get my AE TC3 go FAST! INSANE FAST!
I dont know which BL setup is the best for that, and how to mount up the motor on the chassis.

Also, how will this effect the plastic drive shaft, and Tranny gears?

I want to know what to expect...

Please post the setup that is best for this (ESC/MOTOR) under 250$ all.


Tim
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:19 PM   #2
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The fastest I've ever gone with a TC3 is probably 65mph at the Indianapolis Velodrome. Any motor can make a car go fast with a long enough straight and tall enough gears. I probably could go 60+ with a 2S 5000 mah lipo and a 10.5 motor.

Here are some suggestions.

Check out the Car Action World's Fastest RC Car Challenge! forum here (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/f...play.php?f=342)

- The high speed shouldn't be an issue for the diffs, but I would suggest putting in the white gears (TC3/4/NTC3) as they are designed to be more durable.

- If you are using a carbon fiber drive shaft, make sure that nothing can rub against the shaft. At extremely high RPM the shaft WILL WOBBLE! You will want to pay special attention the the servo mount that is closest to the drive shaft. I would suggest mounting the servo like is recommended in a FT TC4 by removing one of the servo mounting tabs. Please refer to page 15 of the FT TC4 manual found here (http://aedownloads.com/downloads/man...4ft_manual.pdf)

- Another option is an aluminum drive shaft. However, even the aluminum shaft can wobble/bend at extremely high RPM if it is out of balance. DO NOT rev the motor up with the car off the ground.

- The best option for the drive shaft is a titanium drive shaft. Niftech used to make them, but I believe that they may be out of business.

- If you are going to be using a tub chassis TC3, you may need to dremel the chassis webbing that sits underneath the pinion gear to allow for clearance.

- Look for the smallest spur gears that you can find to help overcome the 2.5 internal gear ratio on the TC3. With the popularity of brushless at this time, you should be able to find small spurs from Robinson Racing or PRS. They both should have 64 pitch spurs around 72 teeth. Buy a few extra just in case.

- As far as motor/battery, I really can't recommend anything. When I ran my TC3 on the Indy Velodrome, I was geared to make run time with a 10t motor/3300 batteries. I believe I averaged over 60mph on a 4 minute run on a track with a 1000ft runline. If you want to figure out your potential top speed, check out this calculator on Team Associated website here (http://www.teamassociated.com/racerh.../JavaMath.html). If you need to figure out the RPM of a Novak brushless motor, check out their chart here (http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...spec_chart.htm). Remember that potential RPM and usable RPM are different. Using conservative numbers, a TC3 geared at 72 spur/60 pinion with a motor turning 41000 RPM, you should be able to reach 101mph. That is assuming you have enough room to get the car up to speed.

- I would also recommend using a receiver battery. When running such high RPM, the draw on the battery can cause a dip in voltage and put the receiver into failsafe. By running an external battery for the receiver you should avoid losing contact with the car. At a minimum, you will want to set your failsafe on your receiver in the event that you do lose contact with the car to hit full brakes so that the car doesn't becomes an un-manned missile.

- You should at a minimum use belted touring car tires to prevent ballooning at high speed. Different manufacturers make belted slicks. A better option is to use capped touring car tires. BSR can make capped tires - here is a link to their website (http://johnsbsrracing.com/).

- Look for a very stable body without too much downforce. The typical TC body will have too much overal downforce and just slow you down. Too much front downforce will give the car oversteer at high speeds. I'd suggest a high speed Velo Nascar body. I believe McAllister Racing (http://www.mcallisterracing.com/racing/) makes one. You will want to add a wing to the rear of the car with LARGE side dams to help the car be more stable.

- Lastly for every 5mph over 50mph, expect to spend money. Not only do you have to have your car setup well, at those speeds you are beginning to fight wind resistance.
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Last edited by IndyRC_Racer; 07-15-2009 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
- The best option for the drive shaft is a titanium drive shaft. Niftech used to make them, but I believe that they may be out of business.
http://www.niftech.com/catalog.php?mode=tc3
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:59 PM   #4
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My friend has driven a tc4 at 130mph, he is the 2nd fastest guy in the world after Nic Case. He´s setup is mmm v3 and a 7700kv motor, use a 5s lipo and be very gentle on the throttle, you may also need a mcallister ovalbody with some canardwings in the front to help the front with some downforce.
Youtube search for ejepeje.
I also have another friend who has gone over 100mph with a 2s lipo pack, this is an unofficial record, hes name is suaske on the tube if you would like to contact him.
rgds
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
The fastest I've ever gone with a TC3 is probably 65mph at the Indianapolis Velodrome. Any motor can make a car go fast with a long enough straight and tall enough gears. I probably could go 60+ with a 2S 5000 mah lipo and a 10.5 motor.
.
I think you are extremely nice answering such questions with so many details. I am not interested at all by speed runs but I would appreciate that much explanation by a tech member for each and every (perhaps stoopid) question I may have. So I would like to thank you !! thumbs up !

I would like to mention that shaft cars are by far not the most appropriate drivetrain to do speedruns. Shaft cars have a decreasing efficiency ( shaft wobbling , bevel gears vibration, among others) when comes the speed whereas belts have an increasing efficiency ( the belts get looser from the pulleys with speed, for instance )

I read somewhere that Hara did some testing on a long straight with a pro4 VS a cyclone (same car except the cyclone has a belt drivetrain) with the exact same electronics: 8 more Kmph for the cyclone.

Don't get me wrong, Im fond of the tc3 and still use it. For stock racing it's just a true weapon. But for speedruns... go with a cheap belt car.

above all, have fun !
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:54 PM   #6
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I would agree that a belt drive car should be easier to get a speed run out of. Even an old HPI Pro/Pro 2 should be easier simply because the gearbox ratio is 2.1 vs 2.5 for the TC3. Even the newer TC5 has a gearbox ratio of 2. Trying to get enough gear on the TC3 to go fast was a challenge the last time I ran it for speed because spur gears under 88t 64pitch were hard to find.

Regardless of which TC someone is using for a high speed run, make sure to do some research on what gears will fit. You may need to modify the cam on a TC3 to get clearance for larger pinions. On belt drive cars, large pinions can make it difficult to tighten the motor. Also on all RC cars, there are limits to what gears can mechanically fit in the car. Even though I might want to run a 120/65 in a TC3, there just isn't enough room to make that fit on a stock TC3.

I forgot to mention it before, but some aftermarket TC3 chassis use different motor mounts that are similar to a FT TC4 and allow for a much wider range of gear selections. A good example is made by Xtreme RC Racing found here (http://www.xtremercracing.com/TC3_Ca...iber_Parts.cfm)
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjompa View Post
My friend has driven a tc4 at 130mph, he is the 2nd fastest guy in the world after Nic Case. He´s setup is mmm v3 and a 7700kv motor, use a 5s lipo and be very gentle on the throttle, you may also need a mcallister ovalbody with some canardwings in the front to help the front with some downforce.
Youtube search for ejepeje.
I also have another friend who has gone over 100mph with a 2s lipo pack, this is an unofficial record, hes name is suaske on the tube if you would like to contact him.
rgds
Tomas
What's funny is that the "135MPH" run the video was dark.

On top of that the street in front of your house hardly counts as "The second fastest car behind Nic Case" I would take that car to the Fontana Raceway in Ontario California in November and see how fast your car really is
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:48 PM   #8
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The 2 biggest challenges with speed runs are radio range/visual range and a long enough straight to get the car up to speed.

The only speed runs I've ever witnessed in person were done in a controlled enviroment on a closed course. The closed course happened to be the Indianapolis Major Taylor Velodrome, which has a 1123ft runline. The challenge with that track is that it really doesn't have long straights. By the time you could get the car to full throttle, you'd already be 1/2 way in the turn having to lift so you wouldn't push out to the wall.

The fastest car I've recently seen was a 4-cell mod pan car driven by John Foister of BSR tires. I know he was turning around 10 second laps, which was around 75mph. Certainly not a true "insane" run, but more impressive in that he was able to run consistant laps at that speed.
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:01 PM   #9
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thanks for all the input guys!

But I am only looking for casual 100mph runs in the street, and that is it...

I really want to know what is the best bl setup for this.
I am also wondering, can the stock plastic motor mount be used to hold the motor?


Again, Im not looking to set a new world record, I just want to run it in the street and SOMETIMES get 100 out of it... With the least spending available...
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCbasher01 View Post
thanks for all the input guys!

But I am only looking for casual 100mph runs in the street, and that is it...

I really want to know what is the best bl setup for this.
I am also wondering, can the stock plastic motor mount be used to hold the motor?


Again, Im not looking to set a new world record, I just want to run it in the street and SOMETIMES get 100 out of it... With the least spending available...
100mph in the street is not casual and might be dangerous.
I recommend more a nice parking lot on slow day..
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Old 07-16-2009, 05:12 AM   #11
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100mph in the street is not casual and might be dangerous.
I recommend more a nice parking lot on slow day..
Well I have a nice (2mile) stretch of new road... It is about 5 mins walking time from my house. It is an abandoned parking lot of a mall...

I havent seen anyone there for about 3 months now, the construction company went bankrupt, so it is an awesome place to explore and a nice place to run my cars.

I also have an indoor running track (500meter) circle, and I can run my elec there if I want... Its great to have big people in high places!
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:11 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=RCbasher01;6074685]Well I have a nice (2mile) stretch of new road... It is about 5 mins walking time from my house. It is an abandoned parking lot of a mall...

you will probable need an air radio and a good eye test before you run your car down that road
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by RCbasher01 View Post

Please post the setup that is best for this (ESC/MOTOR) under 250$ all.
If this is one of the conditions then I suggest you give up. There is no such "setup". Everything you want (and need) is pushing more towards the 1000$ figure and if you want reliability on top of that you might even see the next order of magnitude. As someone already said, there is a law of diminishing returns once you hit a threshold and every extra mph will double the cost of the setup.

But before you spend the first buck I would strongly recommend you check the road you want to run on is perfectly flat and free of debris otherwise you'll be flying instead of driving.

Good luck.
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Old 07-16-2009, 08:05 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by abailey21 View Post
What's funny is that the "135MPH" run the video was dark.

On top of that the street in front of your house hardly counts as "The second fastest car behind Nic Case" I would take that car to the Fontana Raceway in Ontario California in November and see how fast your car really is
We can do a official speedrun in Europe to on the rossa speed event in England. we actually did last year and you can check in fast-rc.co.uk and look at the results, his name is Vässmar, he also have a vid on castle creations homepage: http://www.castlecreations.com/products/mamba_max.html
I think you can chill down a bit.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:33 AM   #15
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Thanks for all the input!

towards the Mamba Max ESC with a Mamba max 7700kv motor, and 2 2cell lipos. Line them together you get a 4cell, but for everyday bash, I will only run 2 cell.

My guess is that I will make it run faster then 60mph... That is my main goal! ROFL

I dont want a competitive car that is just a money pot, I want a economic backyard basher that LOVES INSANE SPEED! XD

Am I right about the speed estimate?
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