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Old 06-17-2009, 11:36 AM   #91
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Hmmm,

It looks like so far we have:

1.)Too fast for Average Joe to participate.
2.)No incentive for the faster Stock guys to move up. Possible loss of Sponsorship...

I guess the question is; how can we fix this? Motor limits in the mod class? Eliminate ALL sponsorship for the Stock classes? Ideas anyone?
Slow the stock down!
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:00 PM   #92
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(my God, I've made a relevant post!)
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Slow the stock down!
+1!!!
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:14 PM   #93
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Here's a thought - Leave the 7.4v lipo but reduce the capacity from 5000's down to 2400-3200's for Mod?
i think the racing gets better here, but that brings back the situation (or perception) where racers are really going through (culling) batteries to get those few extra seconds out of the tank.

at which point, we've gone full circle, and the same a**es that thought they couldn't get the 'pro stuff' will be rioting again.... if only to keep up the illusion. (i'm really hung up on that odd behavior at the moment)

that's the nature of spec racing, though. so, we're finally at a point in modified where anyone has more than enough 'go' with off the shelf stuff. (recall, that was everyone's wet dream 5+ years ago). and what the h*ll are we doing with it?
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:21 PM   #94
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Exactly...lol... Or lets just make a 1/8 scale style 190mm body to go on the TC's. Lay the shocks down for clearance and punch it...lol... That would be a riot!! Oh, wait... Those were 1/10 pan cars in the early 2000's that no one would race because of the speed and they thought someone was going to get killed....lol... And all the realists complain they don't look like anything... Ah well... Back to the drawing board...
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:23 PM   #95
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Interesting how some places are having success with 21.5 or mabuchi/johnson silver cans. I remember when you couldn't wait to throw that motor in the trash. Funny how things come full circle.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:46 PM   #96
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Those were 1/10 pan cars in the early 2000's that no one would race because of the speed and they thought someone was going to get killed.
that's such a funny quote to me. (when you consider that nobody's even riding in these cars!). sorta gives you some idea of how out of control we can let things get.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:00 PM   #97
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sorta gives you some idea of how out of control we can let things get.
See attached:
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File Type: doc 07Steamer.doc (60.0 KB, 186 views)
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:10 PM   #98
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See attached:
LMAO ..nice event name:

The Cleveland steamer (or "Surrey Steamer" as it is known in Great Britain) is a form of coprophilia, where one defecates on another's chest, then rocks back and forth imitating the motion of a steamroller.[6] [7] The term received news attention through its use in a U.S. Congress staff hoax email and being addressed by the United States Federal Communications Commission.[8]
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:19 PM   #99
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I would run Mod in a heartbeat. I don't even care so much about trying to beat others as I do challenging myself to make the car work. I can see where it gets expensive in terms of better equipment, "perishables" such as tires, etc., but this is a hobby, so you'd have to expect a continual investment of some sort.

There are 2 reasons that it is not popular in my area.

1. No support from racers, either due to finances or lack of ability
2. Some tracks simply can't support 1/10 with Mod speeds (like mine)

Our stock foam class looks blistering fast, but it's only because of the track size. We really can't support anything faster than stock foam or stock 1/12.

And I've noticed that a large majority of people I've talked to assume that if a guy is running in the Mod class, he is fully decked out with sponsorships, nice equipment, travels year-round, etc. I think a BIG factor is intimidation, both by the assumed profiles of the other racers and the cars themselves.

Why couldn't it just be 6-8 casually-competitive guys like me who just want to go stupidly fast around a track? I know it's not as simple as it sounds, but for someone like me, I just want to put in a low-turn motor, find a good setup, then go out and turn some crazy-fast laps. You don't have to be a literal professional to be competitive or have fun.

Joe Racer and his friends running the Mod class at their local track doesn't automatically dictate that he has to compete on a national level, either. Doesn't having a hobby or passion boil down to enjoying it and having fun?

Just my thoughts
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:29 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Advil View Post
Hmmm,

It looks like so far we have:

1.)Too fast for Average Joe to participate.
2.)No incentive for the faster Stock guys to move up. Possible loss of Sponsorship...

I guess the question is; how can we fix this? Motor limits in the mod class? Eliminate ALL sponsorship for the Stock classes? Ideas anyone?
You have to start at the teams and have them do a re-assesment of how they are bringing on "Team" drivers and what their purpose are. In this time and age with the internet, anyone with enough tenacity can continue to nag themselves into a sponsorship of some sort or another. Big deal, just about everyone wants to be a "Team" driver to get some kind of discount, it means nothing to most of them and they would gladly jump ship as soon as a better deal comes up. All of a sudden what was good one day is complete junk the next day, and thats because its just too easy, no brand loyalty.

SO make the stock or super stock winner the people that move themselves up in the "Team" ranking. Get the manufacturers on board with a deal like the winner of the stock has to move up (ROAR standards) but also have some knid of "full meal deal sponsorship" to go with it. I'm not talking a 100%er but something like a "B" or "B+" sponsorship. These guys, the manufacturers or what ever "Team" deal could dump a lot of dead weight from their teams and concentrate on making a "Team" sponsorship something worth working for and keeping, and with the trim job there would be more for those that are kept on with the "Team". Get the manufacturers to all agree on how many "Team" drivers they can have instead of this flooding of the field to get a win. If they where to do that then we would actually have the start of the selection of the pro-rating of the drivers for each of the classess. For example a official "Team" would be allowed 10 drivers, 3 mod, 3 super stock, 3 stock and 1 floater, the floater could be a person that the "Team" is developing and could slot into any one of the classess.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:34 PM   #101
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(At the Reedy, EJ Evan's 13.5 times were faster than open Mod)...
oh sure just rub it in.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:57 PM   #102
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For example a official "Team" would be allowed 10 drivers, 3 mod, 3 super stock, 3 stock and 1 floater, the floater could be a person that the "Team" is developing and could slot into any one of the classess.
I'm not liking the term "floater". Too much time at the Gate hanging around seaball and McSmooth, I guess.

Every beginner always wants to have the fastest car, at least until they realize that there is a turn at the end of the straight. Watching Blackstock, Chicky, etc., practice at the Gate with their mod cars, it becomes obvious that they are only at full throttle about 25% of each lap, if that. The rest of the time is either braking, coasting, or little throttle blips to the next corner. In the slower classes, you spend more time closer to or at full throttle. Beginners don't realize that the throttle is proportional, not an on/off switch, and that you can push the trigger as well as pull it. In other words, unlimited mod is a waste on most US tracks with today's motors (as shown by example lap times listed by others above), and a lot of drivers just don't have the skill to drive mod.

I guess that explains why a lot of "Sportsmen" don't move up, but not why the Stock A Main guys don't move up. At least ROAR is forcing the A Main Stock winners to move up for 5 years.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:17 PM   #103
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I'm not liking the term "floater". Too much time at the Gate hanging around seaball and McSmooth, I guess.

Every beginner always wants to have the fastest car, at least until they realize that there is a turn at the end of the straight. Watching Blackstock, Chicky, etc., practice at the Gate with their mod cars, it becomes obvious that they are only at full throttle about 25% of each lap, if that. The rest of the time is either braking, coasting, or little throttle blips to the next corner. In the slower classes, you spend more time closer to or at full throttle. Beginners don't realize that the throttle is proportional, not an on/off switch, and that you can push the trigger as well as pull it. In other words, unlimited mod is a waste on most US tracks with today's motors (as shown by example lap times listed by others above), and a lot of drivers just don't have the skill to drive mod.

I guess that explains why a lot of "Sportsmen" don't move up, but not why the Stock A Main guys don't move up. At least ROAR is forcing the A Main Stock winners to move up for 5 years.
Remember when you actually overgeared your car and then drove at 1/2 throttle except to pass and then you still had to try and figure out how to make run time. More lost art of the hobby.

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Old 06-17-2009, 02:19 PM   #104
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At least ROAR is forcing the A Main Stock winners to move up for 5 years.
speaking of that, I didnt like that rule at first, but lately I have been running mod and it put the fun back into racing, and now all I care to run is mod.

stock = race once every 3-4 months(if that), burnt out, not caring.

mod = at the track every chance I get, from opening to closing. wouldnt dare miss a weekend!

for me, anyways
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:27 PM   #105
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Mostly the "paid" drivers run mod.. From what i have seen and heard. Mod requires more often diff rebuilds, ( every other run ) more general car wear and tear.

What i do like about mod is if you think about the speed and racing aspect of it, stock and super stock racing cost us believe it or not a whole lot more than open mod would. I only use this from experience running mod off road. When you run mod, it doesnt matter what turn motor your running, a guy with a 6.5 can be as fast as a guy with a 4.0. Where as with 17.5 or 13.5 you find yourself spending more money to try and have the best lipos or cells, looking for best rotor strength etc, best charge rate, new sorex's every run etc etc.

Mod guys, it doesnt matter if you have a 3800 30c or a 4200 40c, regardless your going to be fast, and it will rely best on setup..

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